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We are not fine, we do not need to l2p

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#1 ahjus

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Posted 12 August 2007 - 05:07 PM

Acording to Tom Chilton, druids have been under represented in all arenas not because we don't have abilities, but because we can't utilize them to the fullest. For example, mangle is so great and is very easy to use. The bleed effect is just as good as a warrior's MS, which means that you could use a druid as a warriors spot in a 5v5... /sarcasm. Then cat druids face the same problems that rogues face in 5v5... they suck because if they are FFed, there is nothing they can do but die. Running is possible, but when your running, your not helping.

Ok, so feral sucks in 5v5, now lets look at balance... BAlance has NO casting interupts, and no get the hell off me talents/ get me the hell away from you talents. The only thing they can do is pop natures grasp, hit travel form and run, then pop out. Needless to say this is not even close to as effective as i don't know... fear? blink? iceblock? deathcoil? When a caster is against a moonkin, fighting without healing yourself is all but useless, making moonkin worthless in those situations.

Finally, Resto, the spec that I am and has always been (other than a few months as feral when BC came out). Resto is amazing in 2v2, and nobody will dispute that. Its decent in 3v3, and thats cool. In 5v5, we are the WORST healer. After we put off our first few hots we are inevitably FFed, forcing us to go bear form to have a shot at LoSiing/surviving. The problem is, if your trying too hard to LoS, your teammates will be FFed and your maybe 5 seconds from getting back to healing them. Paladins and shammies have some natural defenses... armor (ToL not having 400% armor increase is something I don't get) bubble, earth shield, BoP. They do NOT beat us at survivability, which is why we own at 2v2. They beat us in durability, as in they can still do things while being attacked. Priests are becoming the anti-healer and are increasingly used in all brackets. Mana burn, blessed resiliance, mass dispell, dispell spams, hots, PoM, shields.... yea, priests even with as much durability as us, can help SOOO much more in a 5v5. Cycloneing one person in a 5v5 and healing is not nearly as good as what priests bring to a group.

So, lets talk, maybe the developers will read this little site and learn that druids do not need to learn2play.
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#2 wojo

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Posted 12 August 2007 - 08:10 PM

http://armory.worldo...er storytellers

that's my team as feral (shaeleth, zyori, thinktank, glickz, and myself) which i have 100% on. my battlegroup has seen druids work in every bracket as every spec and break 2200. these posts are completely unnecessary holes of self pity and if you want sympathy try the druid forums. apparently a lot of 1600s there are only stuck because of the class.
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#3 Tyveris

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Posted 12 August 2007 - 08:56 PM

Druids are starting to work as 5v5 healers on burst teams. Check this thread where agnos talks about how their 1 druid healer works. http://www.arenajunk...wtopic.php?t=89

Chilton might not be that far off base. Druids have a lot of abilities and need to utilize much more of them to be effective than potentially a paladin healer might (rarely focused, guarenteed bubble heals). I think we will slowly see the popularity of druid healers rise just as it has been in both 2s and 3s.
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#4 Harmann

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 09:34 AM

I'm slowly switching mains towards a Druid in 5v5. No other class can lockdown a player while providing top rate heals and CC.

Right now I own 2 pieces of leather gear with the rest filled in by misc cloth Kara healing crap/blues. I play on an alt team due to my 7k hp and current gear not being suitable for my main team (my main team's comp doesn't really support a Druid healer anyway) so my team mates are less then 1st rate (will leave it at that =\) and we already are well into the 1800's on our first day.

If I was with strong PvPers and had gear, it would be even better.

Way I see it, right now there's a couple team combos that work well:

A: Warrior + Paladin + Priest/Shaman + Mage/Warlock + Whatever

B: Druid + Warlock + Rogue/Warrior (I prefer Rogue on this team) + Hunter + Warlock/Mage

When B faces A, the Druid locks down their Warrior to facilitate solo healing. I can keep a Warrior out of a fight for a very long time which means no MS, no big damage, no snares.

Something like this:
Cyclone 6s
Cyclone 3s
Cyclone 1.5s
Roots 10s
Roots 5s
Roots 2.5s
Feral Charge 5s
Bash 5s (this one's iffy)

Roots can be countered a bit... I do toss FF and probably a Moonfire as well so the Roots can't be Cleansed so easily. If the Warrior is BoF'd or something I'll just Cyclone a healer to facilitate my DPS to burn down their target.

Anyway looong post to basically say: you can't just throw a Druid in place of a Priest or something. They belong in certain teams with certain makeups and you need to basically structure the team around the Druid as well as form strategies to play to the Druid strengths/weaknesses.

If your DPS are competent and you've selected the correct classes to complement the Druid, he will absolutely be unkillable.

You can also setup huge gib combos with Cyclone. Most people don't think to Cyclone the burn target, but if you coordinate damage bursts it can be very effective.

Druid just has so much potential.
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#5 Kcolraw

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 10:44 AM

rogue, spriest, afflock, afflock, drood for funtimes
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#6 Yingas

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 01:56 PM

Druids work on gib teams...no were not balanced in 5's....but we are balanced in 2's and 3's and you could argue some of the best 3's team builds have a druid in them.....I don't blame blizzard for not having our class balanced in 5's...HOW can they fix it...we are a hybrid class giving us something that would effect is ONLY in 5's is near fucking impossible and some of the things would overpower us in 2's and 3's...

im gonna qoute my buddy THE GOVANAR

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#7 Molp

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Posted 13 August 2007 - 06:46 PM

Druids can work in 5v5. They are just not as flexible as say paladins. I have played as druid on 5v5 since I started arenaing, and we spent most of that time without having a pally on the team (holy priest/resto shaman/resto druid/frost mage/MS warr). Our team works well, but is *incredibly* lineup-dependent. If we are missing any one player, our rating drops like 100 points. Every time, without fail.

Why? Because we are built around very specific synergies. Cyclone/poly rotations, for example. Mage not there, priest gets owned by double warrior. Without BoF and BoP, double CC is flat out neccessary to keep the squishies alive. And I don't think I have to tell you how things worked out when the shaman was on vacation and we had to run druid/priest healing.

We added a pally, and even though he is not on par with the rest of the team in terms of skill and gear (and has cost us points as a result), he opened up many new lineups that would before simply not have worked.

Take any reasonable 4 man team. Add a pally. You have a good 5 man team. The same cannot be said for druids. Try running double healer without a pally. Its a desaster. Druids shine in a specific subset of team. Very specific, like gib. Pallies shine everywhere, and incidentally also work for the same teams as druids (there are more gib teams with pallies than druids I think). So, if class A works with 100% of all sensible lineups and class B works with 20% of all sensible lineups, which class is going to be more represented? Also, why would a team that needs consistent wins (for example a sponsored team) pick a class that limits what they can run? Metagame changes, your lineup all of a sudden sucks. The pally is still going to be strong in the new world. Can the same be said for the druid? Odds are, no. So, since the druid brings no real advantages over the pally even in the best case, why risk it? Doing the cookie cutter for consistent wins is simply the better idea.

Currently in 5v5, there are pallies and there are support healers. And since druids drew the short straw when Blizzard handed out dispels, they are not even the first choice for that second spot. That does not mean druids are not viable, but having one specific team work with druids does not make the class fine. Not everyone has access to the one lineup that makes their class work.

Druids are a lot of fun though, and are really strong in 2v2. Now if only 2v2 gave decent points...
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