Jump to content

Photo

Specifically, how are Priests overpowered and if so, what do you do about them?


  • Please log in to reply
531 replies to this topic

#41 LessQQmorepwpew

LessQQmorepwpew

Posted 22 April 2009 - 08:41 PM

Your avatar is really annoying for some reason.


Haha it bothers me for some reason as well. That Mickey is frightening
  • 0

#42 Clefairy

Clefairy
  • Members
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Magtheridon
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 131
  • Talents: Enhancement 0/2/0/2/0/0/0
  • 2v2: 1400
  • 5v5: 1419

Posted 22 April 2009 - 08:55 PM

From my observations it seems like every non priest is complaining, while most of the people who play priest are saying it's balanced (the remaining few say they are op). I haven't gotten a chance to play yet so I can't say for myself.

As for the imbalanced 2s bracket I don't know how shaman will turn out seeing as almost all of our viable partners got nerfed.
  • 0

#43 Cuddlybunnyz

Cuddlybunnyz
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Lothar
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 335
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/1/2/2/0/1/2
  • 2v2: 1962
  • 3v3: 2325
  • 5v5: 2126
  • RBG: 1790

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:09 PM

the reason priests are "overpowered" is that they can heal through incoming damage better than anyone in the game because of the absorption effects that they have been given, along with stacking what, 5 different buffs on a player that are needed to purge through to rip off said absorptions.

you people like to complain about mana efficiency and rapture nerfs, but fail to mention that shadowfiend gives you nearly 8k mana back if not more now. i know their mana efficiency was shit but to say its still bad is kind of hilarious.

priests rarely need to channel heals other than penance because power word shield renew and mending are enough to keep people topped off

as far as rmp goes, mages frost barrier + power word shield both have dispel resist and absorb upwards of 8-10k damage together, which is a lot of damage to dump before you can actually touch someones health bar. for a healer like a paladin with no purge, its kind of hard to deal with. add in replenishment from mages (terrible design idea as it is, place replenishment right in the pvp tree for mages when its main purpose is for pve, and then put replenishment in destruction while destroying affliction for warlocks, perfect sense) and priests are pretty ridiculous in 3's, if you disagree by all means let me why you think so.

I will bold the bottom line

priest healing is based around preventative damage and absorptions, which in pvp allows you to play more aggressive than any other healer in the game. absorptions and instants allow you free globals to do things other healers cannot.

is it fair that hunter viper sting was nerfed into oblivion in part to help priests mana (giving the hunter basically nothing in return to compensate), but priest mana burn is now the most effective drain in the game by far and with changes people are starting to spam it again like in previous seasons? i certainly hope we don't get back to the point where double healer x with a priest spamming burn the whole game is a top of the line comp.

i played my priest at 70 and they are in a place that is way better than they have ever been, if you think priests aren't at or near the top of the healer list now you are delusional, just because they are ridiculous in one comp doesn't mean they aren't still really good in other stuff too
  • 0

#44 Magdain

Magdain
  • Premium
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Mal'Ganis
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 2,643
  • Talents: Balance

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:13 PM

the reason priests are "overpowered" is that they can heal through incoming damage better than anyone in the game because of the absorption effects that they have been given, along with stacking what, 5 different buffs on a player that are needed to purge through to rip off said absorptions.

you people like to complain about mana efficiency and rapture nerfs, but fail to mention that shadowfiend gives you nearly 8k mana back if not more now.

priests rarely need to channel heals other than penance because power word shield renew and mending are enough to keep people topped off, thus you are less susceptible to CC/counterspells than other classes (though druids kind of have it better in that regard)

as far as rmp goes, mages frost barrier + power word shield both have dispel resist and absorb upwards of 8-10k damage together, which is a lot of damage to dump before you can actually touch someones health bar. for a healer like a paladin with no purge, its kind of hard to deal with.

I will bold the bottom line

priest healing is based around preventative damage and absorptions, which in pvp allows you to play more aggressive than any other healer in the game. absorptions and instants allow you free globals to do things other healers cannot.

is it fair that hunter viper sting was nerfed into oblivion in part to help priests mana (giving the hunter basically nothing in return to compensate), but priest mana burn is now the most effective drain in the game by far and with changes people are starting to spam it again like in previous seasons? i certainly hope we don't get back to the point where double healer x with a priest spamming burn the whole game is a top of the line comp.

i played my priest at 70 and they are in a place that is way better than they have ever been, if you think priests aren't at the top of the healer list now you are delusional, just because they fit in well with rmp doesn't mean they aren't viable in other comps now either.


priests might be overpowered, but this doesn't really add anything at all to the discussion. priests had the ability do all of that before 3.1. viper sting was nerfed because it was unpreventable, instant cast, and ranged. mana burn is not unpreventable.

the amount of mana shadow fiend gives back is also moot since it's kind of a 12k health 0 resilience pet with no avoidance.
  • 0

#45 Zexis

Zexis
  • Salinelol
  • Trollclass_name
  • US-Illidan
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 995
  • Talents: Shadow

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:15 PM

the reason priests are "overpowered" is that they can heal through incoming damage better than anyone in the game because of the absorption effects that they have been given, along with stacking what, 5 different buffs on a player that are needed to purge through to rip off said absorptions.

you people like to complain about mana efficiency and rapture nerfs, but fail to mention that shadowfiend gives you nearly 8k mana back if not more now.

priests rarely need to channel heals other than penance because power word shield renew and mending are enough to keep people topped off, thus you are less susceptible to CC/counterspells than other classes (though druids kind of have it better in that regard)

as far as rmp goes, mages frost barrier + power word shield both have dispel resist and absorb upwards of 8-10k damage together, which is a lot of damage to dump before you can actually touch someones health bar. for a healer like a paladin with no purge, its kind of hard to deal with.

I will bold the bottom line

priest healing is based around preventative damage and absorptions, which in pvp allows you to play more aggressive than any other healer in the game. absorptions and instants allow you free globals to do things other healers cannot.

is it fair that hunter viper sting was nerfed into oblivion in part to help priests mana (giving the hunter basically nothing in return to compensate), but priest mana burn is now the most effective drain in the game by far and with changes people are starting to spam it again like in previous seasons? i certainly hope we don't get back to the point where double healer x with a priest spamming burn the whole game is a top of the line comp.

i played my priest at 70 and they are in a place that is way better than they have ever been, if you think priests aren't at the top of the healer list now you are delusional, just because they fit in well with rmp doesn't mean they aren't viable in other comps now either.



Although I haven't played discipline at all since 3.1, I feel safe in the assumption that even if priests are fine (which I believe is true, but that we have a very high skill cap in comparison to say.... paladins) that when priests get toned down (which with the amount of crying it is quite obvious that they will much faster than paladins did, or druids (LOL 3 SEASONS OF PURE OP)) that shadow priests will get the short end of the stick.

Also, saying that priests have the most reliable CC breaks is maybe one of the stupidest things I have heard.

Hey, I have a 6sec CD interrupt, Tremor Totem with no CD, and Grounding Totem, but priests have way too many breaks! (12 second SW:D CD)
  • 0

I beat dan's LSD (lol you claim its an op comp)


he's saying if it was an OP comp Dan should have beat him you fucking retard



LSD Champions at their finest

#46 Cuddlybunnyz

Cuddlybunnyz
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Lothar
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 335
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/1/2/2/0/1/2
  • 2v2: 1962
  • 3v3: 2325
  • 5v5: 2126
  • RBG: 1790

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:23 PM

the point is that they didn't do it prior to 3.1, you keep posting that same crap over and over, if priests could spec and glyph with divine aegis and renewed hope and 6 second penance i am sure they would have.

shadow fiend got buffed in a major way and adds 1k damage a hit, but obviously putting it on someone that is snared already is way too tough

do you think that viper sting deserved to become a pile of shit because it hurt priests, but mana burn in its current form is ok? we'll see how the season goes, but I am pretty sure i know where the complaints are going to go once priests have all the free time in the world to burn again because they need to spend so few globals healing compared to everyone else
  • 0

#47 Cuddlybunnyz

Cuddlybunnyz
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Lothar
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 335
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/1/2/2/0/1/2
  • 2v2: 1962
  • 3v3: 2325
  • 5v5: 2126
  • RBG: 1790

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:25 PM

i didnt say they had too many breaks, i said that they way priests heal they are less susceptible to cc because they can heal while moving with instant casts.

play a shaman and then let me know what you think about tremor being a reliable cc break on yourself
  • 0

#48 WhyteGladiator

WhyteGladiator
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 373
  • Talents: Subtlety

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:27 PM

Funny how the only buff we got is self pennance, and now we are op.

Its almost as if ccing the priest and killing their partner is now somehow harder?
  • 0

#49 Horrible

Horrible
  • Members
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • US-Uther
  • Whirlwind
  • Posts: 1,892
  • Talents: Enhancement

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:29 PM

Funny how the only buff we got is self pennance, and now we are op.

Its almost as if ccing the priest and killing their partner is now somehow harder?

What's really funny is that you think that that is the only change that helped priests :o
  • 0

#50 Cuddlybunnyz

Cuddlybunnyz
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Lothar
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 335
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/1/2/2/0/1/2
  • 2v2: 1962
  • 3v3: 2325
  • 5v5: 2126
  • RBG: 1790

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:33 PM

just because priests didn't get directly buffed over the top like reading the patch notes might show (even though they changed a lot of things that made them better but i wont get into it) doesn't mean they are not buffed

addition by subtraction is still addition when talking about nerfs to hunters and other classes
  • 0

#51 Prov

Prov
  • Members
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • US-Scilla
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 4,784
  • Talents:

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:36 PM

the point is that they didn't do it prior to 3.1, you keep posting that same crap over and over, if priests could spec and glyph with divine aegis and renewed hope and 6 second penance i am sure they would have.

shadow fiend got buffed in a major way and adds 1k damage a hit, but obviously putting it on someone that is snared already is way too tough

do you think that viper sting deserved to become a pile of shit because it hurt priests, but mana burn in its current form is ok? we'll see how the season goes, but I am pretty sure i know where the complaints are going to go once priests have all the free time in the world to burn again because they need to spend so few globals healing compared to everyone else


I don't see how you can compare viper sting vs priests pre 3.1 to mana burn.

priest healing is based around preventative damage and absorptions, which in pvp allows you to play more aggressive than any other healer in the game. absorptions and instants allow you free globals to do things other healers cannot.


that's always been the design of priests. I'm not even necessarily disagreeing that some things are too good right now, but your argument is that priests are fundamentally overpowered, whereas our design was the same before this patch.
  • 0

I really hope blizzard does something about this. because the Impossibleness of cleave to beat any comp, really, is just an excruciating process that involves immense skill and luck. Buff warriors death knights and pallys, nerf mages and rogues.


#52 WhyteGladiator

WhyteGladiator
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Kel'Thuzad
  • Nightfall
  • Posts: 373
  • Talents: Subtlety

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:37 PM

What's really funny is that you think that that is the only change that helped priests :o


sorry shadowfiend, hymn of hope, or divine hymn also wont help save you vs teams that cc priest and 2 shot rogue, etc
  • 0

#53 Cuddlybunnyz

Cuddlybunnyz
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Lothar
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 335
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/1/2/2/0/1/2
  • 2v2: 1962
  • 3v3: 2325
  • 5v5: 2126
  • RBG: 1790

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:40 PM

the design is the same, but the amount and power of the absorption effects is what is causing an uproar. absorptions in themselves are fine, and obviously are unique in that not every class has them, but its to the point where you really only need to cast a few things now to keep someone up because of the potency of the absorption effects. If you crit penances, and i'm sure most priests will start gearing for some crit now, with the divine aegis talent its a ton of absorptions and basically makes playing with a priest or shaman a requirement because you can't clean off absorptions otherwise.

I only mentioned mana burn because i can foresee down the road that it is going to be a problem again now that it is pretty much the only drain in the game (lock drain but nobody even uses it), viper sting was a core hunter ability since the game came out pretty much and everyone knows that priests got raped by it, but I still think they went too far making it basically useless as a burn and leaving the most potent drain in the game in the hands of a healing class that is now considered near the top
  • 0

#54 Deadlyhoof

Deadlyhoof
  • Rippd
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Thunderlord
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 435
  • Talents: Holy

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:44 PM

Funny how the only buff we got is self pennance, and now we are op.


Penance is like the new Holy Shock, it may not be instant cast but is efficient and does a load of healing. The only difference is that in between holy shocks pallies couldn't mana burn just like how priests do in between penances.
  • 0

#55 Aceshigh

Aceshigh
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Blackrock
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 313
  • Talents: Affliction

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:46 PM

Blizz doesnt balance this game for 1vs1 its for 2vs2 3vs3 5vs5.
  • 0

#56 Prov

Prov
  • Members
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • US-Scilla
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 4,784
  • Talents:

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:47 PM

the design is the same, but the amount and power of the absorption effects is what is causing an uproar. absorptions in themselves are fine, and obviously are unique in that not every class has them, but its to the point where you really only need to cast a few things now to keep someone up because of the potency of the absorption effects. If you crit penances, and i'm sure most priests will start gearing for some crit now, with the divine aegis talent its a ton of absorptions and basically makes playing with a priest or shaman a requirement because you can't clean off absorptions otherwise.

I only mentioned mana burn because i can foresee down the road that it is going to be a problem again now that it is pretty much the only drain in the game (lock drain but nobody even uses it), viper sting was a core hunter ability since the game came out pretty much and everyone knows that priests got raped by it, but I still think they went too far making it basically useless as a burn and leaving the most potent drain in the game in the hands of a healing class that is now considered near the top


I agree, that's what I was trying to get across; that if priests are overpowered it's not the design that's necessarily imbalanced, but the numbers that go along with it.

I also don't forsee a crit based build/gearing being the ideal setup for 2s, but we'll see. Perhaps with teammates that can secure a kill quickly.

Penance is like the new Holy Shock, it may not be instant cast but is efficient and does a load of healing. The only difference is that in between holy shocks pallies couldn't mana burn just like how priests do in between penances.


holy shit rofl

yes the only difference between holy shock and penance is mana burn

btw holy shock is ridiculously inefficient just so you know
  • 0

I really hope blizzard does something about this. because the Impossibleness of cleave to beat any comp, really, is just an excruciating process that involves immense skill and luck. Buff warriors death knights and pallys, nerf mages and rogues.


#57 Cuddlybunnyz

Cuddlybunnyz
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Lothar
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 335
  • Talents: Mistweaver 1/1/2/2/0/1/2
  • 2v2: 1962
  • 3v3: 2325
  • 5v5: 2126
  • RBG: 1790

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:48 PM

i was talking more for 3s with replenishment, at least thats what my priest pals have been looking to do
  • 0

#58 Prov

Prov
  • Members
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • US-Scilla
  • Stormstrike
  • Posts: 4,784
  • Talents:

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:50 PM

Ah, yeah I'm leaning toward it for 3s as well
  • 0

I really hope blizzard does something about this. because the Impossibleness of cleave to beat any comp, really, is just an excruciating process that involves immense skill and luck. Buff warriors death knights and pallys, nerf mages and rogues.


#59 Zestola

Zestola
  • Members
  • Goblinclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 283
  • Talents: Restoration

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:52 PM

It's pretty retarded how offensive a priest can go, out mana the opposing healer while having the option to instantly go defensive if need be.
  • 0

#60 Gunnolf

Gunnolf
  • Junkies
  • Dwarfclass_name
  • US-Tichondrius
  • Bloodlust
  • Posts: 1,784
  • Talents: Shadow

Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:59 PM

IDK you maybe right, i haven't played much in the new patch. To me i always imagine an overpowered healer being someone that scurries away from everything slamming instants and you can't dent them. (paladin with freedom that has 80% dispel resist, holy shocking---->flash of light or a druid shifting and healing through everything with only instants)

Is it just mana burn that bothers you? Or is it healing throughput?

EDIT:

The only class that deserves replenishment in pvp is shadowpriest.
  • 0
Posted Image
Spoiler




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<