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Specifically, how are Priests overpowered and if so, what do you do about them?


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#1 Laeyrus

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 08:46 AM

Does anyone find it funny that everyone is saying we're OP yet if you ask them to specifically list what is OP about Priests, they won't give you a straight answer?

With Paladins it was: Undispellable Divine Please, JoW, Freedom Stun Spec, and Repentence

With DK's it was: Retardedly strong untalented defensive cooldown coupled with extremely high utility.

With Hunters it was: TnT, viper sting, and explosive shot damage.

I really want to know specifically what is wrong with Priests and how you go about nerfing it. All we got during the patch was no CD Shield (no decrease on weakened soul), some talent consolidation, some crit, and self penance.
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#2 CaithUI

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 08:51 AM

We are too skilled.
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#3 Prov

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 08:56 AM

i'm surprised more people aren't complaining about shaman, if there are this many complaining about priests.
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I really hope blizzard does something about this. because the Impossibleness of cleave to beat any comp, really, is just an excruciating process that involves immense skill and luck. Buff warriors death knights and pallys, nerf mages and rogues.


#4 Laeyrus

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 08:58 AM

i'm surprised more people aren't complaining about shaman, if there are this many complaining about priests.


THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS
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#5 Horrible

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 08:59 AM

ridiculously effecient pennance, 30 second CD AoE cc, mana burn, offensive/defensive dispel, great nuking pressure, variety of different healing effects, pretty good efficieny.

I won't make a call on if priests are OP right now or not but it's not hard to list their pros and cons.
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#6 Laeyrus

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 08:59 AM

ridiculously effecient pennance, 30 second CD AoE cc, mana burn, offensive/defensive dispel, great nuking pressure, variety of different healing effects, pretty good efficieny.

I won't make a call on if priests are OP right now or not but it's not hard to list their pros and cons.


All of those we had last season. Our efficiency went down with the change to Rapture and Spirit nerf.
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#7 Tya

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:09 AM

RMP was overpowered. Rogues, mages and priests got buffed. RMP is now more overpowered.

Whine inc.
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#8 Horrible

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:11 AM

self penance is a massive change, new divine hymn can be game breaking, 30% iron will is great.

Priests weren't that bad last patch either, ret priest was still a top comp.

Hunter nerfs are huge indirecty buffs to priests also.
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#9 Laeyrus

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:11 AM

RMP was overpowered. Rogues, mages and priests got buffed. RMP is now more overpowered.

Whine inc.


Why? Because it was the only comp that could beat your cheese DK/Paladin/Warlock team?
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#10 Mearis

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:11 AM

RMP's power does not rest in any single class being really good but in the synergy of the three classes.
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#11 Tya

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:13 AM

Why? Because it was the only comp that could beat your cheese DK/Paladin/Warlock team?


No, because it was overpowered.
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#12 Kelarm

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:30 AM

I have an alt priest with zero resilience and mostly blues. Clearly I am not qualified to make any judgements on priest balance, but what I feel on him now is almost how I imagine paladin may have felt last season. Obviously there's no way priests (or, I hope, any class ever will be again) will be that overpowered, but that's just how it feels to play one.

On my resto druid and resto shaman (both had bad gear at some point last season) it didn't feel like this. The druid obviously doesn't even need to be mentioned, druids were just terrible. The shaman, though, was pretty balanced last season, I think they maintained like an 8% representation. When he was in blues, it felt like a character should in blues; dying constantly, oom fast, little ability to contribute to anything.

Priest is completely different. What's overpowered? Penance, pretty much. The combination of renewed hope, grace, and divine aegis contribute to it, but it's really mostly just penance. I can heal through so much more damage than any alt ever has before, and my survivability against anything other than rogues is pretty sick too. The other day in strand of the ancients I got attacked by 2 or 3 allies when I had ~700 mana and I actually survived. Got penance going just before I died and I did have to blow desperate prayer when I almost died again inside the penance CD, but the fact remains that I got away around a corner and survived.

Obviously BGs and experience on an alt is pretty worhtless so just take it how you will.
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#13 Tahaa

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 09:32 AM

Thing is, what was drowning priest (is 2s) was mana inefficiency. 6s penance, the fact that penance and shield are ALMOST all you need to heal in 2s (emphasis on almost ofc) makes our healing ridiculously efficient with the new rapture. Then we have manaburn and all other tools at our disposal, and we can use them to the fullest right now.

Changes are small all in all, what makes us strong is that our mana efficiency is now on par with the other healers. Plus our main mana counter, hunters, are weakened. Viper isn't that much of a threat to priests anymore.

Priests are still very weak against melee in general. Enh, wars and rogues still destroy us.
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#14 Voksen

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 04:15 PM

All of those we had last season. Our efficiency went down with the change to Rapture and Spirit nerf.


It was a lot harder to get burn opportunities in last season because standing still would get you gibbed. Inner fire and pain suppression glyphs allow for this.

The new +haste gear, combined with the potential for haste from gloves, new trinks, Ulduar gear, etc...means some ridiculously fast (lolself) penances, yourself or your partner not dying in stuns, nuking someone with burst dmg or manaburns in a cheap shot, etc.

All in all I think disc last season and this season are like night and day. Disc is a lot more hardy overall and like I've said in other posts...not necessarily OP by itself but when paired with another healer some things might be a bit over the top. Inc 2-healer shaman/disc/X teams.

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#15 Xjum

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 04:16 PM

Priests have a limitless skill-cap.
Nerf the players' skill.

Also, Priests (like any other healer) don't go OOM in 2v2 if they have Replishment.
Priest/Ret works well because the Ret takes away the Priest weakness, Mana.
Taaha plays with a Mage, who also gives Replishment -- for a case in point.
(Obviously Priest/Mage has weaknesses other than Mana, but thats a diff topic)

Basically, nerf replishment.
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#16 Magdain

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 04:29 PM

RMP was overpowered. Rogues, mages and priests got buffed. RMP is now more overpowered.

Whine inc.


Please explain in detail how mages and rogues got buffed.

PS: If you say replenishment or wound poison, go back to school and learn basic math.
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#17 Hitower

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 04:30 PM

i'm surprised more people aren't complaining about shaman, if there are this many complaining about priests.


What spec shaman you guys talking about O_O? Riptide got a new icon, i know i know it is game breaking but JEEZ resto shaman seem the exact same and most people got buffed. Except for the retard hpal/dk/hunts.
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#18 Disstance

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 04:32 PM

PS: If you say replenishment or wound poison, go back to school and learn basic math.

Can you explain how those aren't buffs? Not trying to argue, I just don't understand what you mean.
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#19 Gunnolf

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 04:34 PM

The biggest rmp buff was the nerf to hunters.
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#20 Magdain

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Posted 22 April 2009 - 04:40 PM

Can you explain how those aren't buffs? Not trying to argue, I just don't understand what you mean.


Here's a quote from a warrior thread where I bashed my head against a wall trying to explain something horribly simple.

2 x 1.4 @ patch 3.0.9

19 auto-attacks per CS+KS + 9 specials that can proc poisons

50% poison proc rate

=

14 wound poison procs.



2 x 1.8 @ patch 3.1

10 auto-attacks per CS+KS + 9 special that can proc poisons

62% poison proc rate

=

12 wound poison procs


proof of proc rate, using 2x sinister revenge:

Posted Image


tl;dr: wound poison was a normalization. the net result was a minor buff that won't change the outcome of a single game. in the duration of a cs+ks wound poison will do about 900 more damage.



as far as i'm aware, frost mage replenishment is still bugged.

Frostbolt hits now grant Replenishment. Frostbolt with a 1.90s cast time grants Replenishment ticks every 1.90s instead of 1.00s.
Until this is fixed, speccing for Replenishment is likely detrimental to the raid if there is another Replenisher around.


obviously it's not detrimental to an arena team. it's a buff, but if that bug still exists it's nowhere near game changing once again.
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