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Move Drain Mana from Warlocks to Mages


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#1 Tyveris

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 03:24 AM

They don't need it, mages do. It also makes more sense for us to have it, we conjure gems for mana, we have evocate for mana, but we need a more reliable incombat mana regen better than 1k from a consumable.

Why do warlocks not need it? They already have lifetap and drain health. (Potentially Dark Pact and Siphon Life depending on how they spec).

Warlocks = Health Controllers: Drain Life, Lifetap, Healthstone, Siphon Life(if specced).
Mages = Mana Controllers: Drain Mana, Evocation, Mana Gem.

Seems fair to me. Thoughts?

#2 shinosai

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 03:46 AM

I definitely agree that warlocks don't need that ability. As far as mages getting it... not sure. You guys definitely got screwed in mana battles due to the water change. But I could see drain mana seriously shifting mages into the overpowered section for larger arenas with an ability like that.

It is retarded that locks get drain mana AND drain life, though. Drainlife + lifetap already serves the purpose of locks having infinite mana, so adding drain mana on top of that leads warlocks self sufficiency to extreme levels.
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#3 Gannon

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 06:56 AM

Drain Mana just adds to warlocks power. If that got taken away they wouldn't be as bad :D. but still incredibly powerful.

#4 Shimmy

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 10:55 AM

Aside from the fact that a warlock is mainly about the drains/leechs/curses, and mage is about nukes n snares/disorientates/escapes, drain mana isnt about getting mana back, its about draining the enemies.
It just happens to restore ours as well.

#5 Tyveris

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 12:18 PM

Moved to the mage forums where I probably should have posted it.

#6 Malachim

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Posted 13 September 2007 - 06:25 PM

Indeed, move the spell to the mages and make it like a manasteal instead, or something.
Doesn't feel like draining is a mage-thing, lol.

#7 Steamboat

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 02:28 AM

unfortunatley this would never happen blizz cant just take a skill and be like NO NOT YOURS...mages..

#8 Oowafas

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Posted 14 September 2007 - 03:10 AM

Maybe make it a deep arcane talent replacing slow? (It is pretty worthless no? I'm no mage)

#9 Windwalk

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Posted 15 September 2007 - 12:32 AM

Heh, I find it funny that the lock says that they're a DoT, leech, drain class.  Back in beta, warlocks were weak so Blizzard gave them two mage abilites: scorch (searing pain) and pyroblast (soul fire).

Personally, I'd like to see drain mana removed from the game.  It seems like warlocks have enough ways to screw healers/casters over without it.  I don't think mages should get it though, mages are perfectly balanced as far as I can tell.

#10 Haet

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Posted 17 September 2007 - 07:39 AM

Oowafas said:

Maybe make it a deep arcane talent replacing slow? (It is pretty worthless no? I'm no mage)

or make a syphon mana type spell to replace slow


i definitly agree with the original idea though

#11 Ryan

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 09:11 PM

Well giving mages a channeled drain would be utterly useless, since we don't have dots working on the background. If it were some kind of mana siphon that worked on the background while we deal direct dmg, I think it would be a pretty cool change. Mages have EXTREME mana issues since tbc, this could help us alot.
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#12 Demonized

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Posted 18 September 2007 - 11:28 PM

Considering the only reason any warlocks are high in 2v2's (other than the occasional SP/UAlock combo) is because of mana drain...

I think taking it away, and making even good warlocks have to hover at 1900 would seem redundant to me.
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#13 Tyveris

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 12:15 AM

Demonized said:

Considering the only reason any warlocks are high in 2v2's (other than the occasional SP/UAlock combo) is because of mana drain...

I think taking it away, and making even good warlocks have to hover at 1900 would seem redundant to me.
There is no way warlocks would drop to 1900 if they removed drain mana from the game. The power of warlocks is the ability to outlast, and you would still have infinite mana.

#14 Haet

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Posted 19 September 2007 - 03:55 AM

Tyveris said:

There is no way warlocks would drop to 1900 if they removed drain mana from the game. The power of warlocks is the ability to outlast, and you would still have infinite mana.


#15 Crisp

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 02:25 AM

People don't seem to understand that if a warlock is using drain mana he's not doing anything else. Drain mana and drain life are both very slow abilities that need to be used consecutively for a long time to be effective. Don't give them this time or don't expect to win.

The only classes it's ment for is priests, paladins, druids and shamans (since they heal). Priests can dispel, paladins can cleanse. Druids can shapeshift making them immune to mana burning abilities, and shamans can use a rank 1 ES from 20 yards every 6 seconds. Not to mention dots/drains vs grounding totems is an epic fail.

Giving it to mages makes absolutely no sense. Removing it is just giving in to people who can't figure arenas out.

#16 Haet

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 03:00 AM

Crisp said:

People don't seem to understand that if a warlock is using drain mana he's not doing anything else. Drain mana and drain life are both very slow abilities that need to be used consecutively for a long time to be effective. Don't give them this time or don't expect to win.
why do they get an extra option of being such a threat?

priests can heal/damage(depending on spec), or mana burn, two options. two main choices that can heavily determine the outcome of a match.
mages can crowd control or dps, two options. they can determine the outcome with good crowd control, or good damage.
Warlocks can crowd control or dps just like a mage can, they have equal opportunity here. however they have a third option, mana drain.

obviously you cant do all three at once..... well arguably a warlock could dot you up, fear you, and then drain mana but whatever.

but where the advantage comes in is that different teams have different weaknesses and different strengths. some teams are strong against dps, some strong against CC, and some strong against mana burn. but its much harder to make a team that has good cleansing and healing to counter crowd control and dps without maintaining a high vulnerability to mana burn/drain.

warlocks are overpowered w/o mana drain, why do they still have it?


Crisp said:

The only classes it's ment for is priests, paladins, druids and shamans (since they heal). Priests can dispel, paladins can cleanse. Druids can shapeshift making them immune to mana burning abilities, and shamans can use a rank 1 ES from 20 yards every 6 seconds. Not to mention dots/drains vs grounding totems is an epic fail.

mana burning and draining mages or ele shaman is incredibly effective especially in 3s or 2s.

#17 Phiers

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 03:13 AM

The solution isn't buffing mages.  It's making mana drain break on range (not LoS though).

#18 Kadrix

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Posted 21 September 2007 - 08:07 PM

Phiers said:

The solution isn't buffing mages.  It's making mana drain break on range (not LoS though).

Please explain your thoughts on why LOS shouldn't break drains. Drains do break on range iirc, but its a bit over the cap before it does.
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#19 Shaan

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 08:35 AM

Mana drain should be removed. It's as simple as that. And to the one who said that you can't do anything else while draining, that would be true if it was a mage spell.

However, it's a warlock spell, the master of damage over time. DoT up and Drain mana = You do loads of damage + draining mana. And Priests have dispell. Well, one dispell costs about 300 mana, and you're almost guaranteed to get 1 tick in before the priest has time to dispell. That's 500 mana gone on 2 sec. Drain mana has for unknown reasons no cooldown, thus being able to not only completely lock a priest/paladin to only dispell themselves, but to also spend ridiculous amounts of mana whilst doing this.

It's not balanced nor needed for Warlocks, they're powerful enough without it.
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#20 Phiers

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Posted 22 September 2007 - 09:00 AM

Draining wouldn't be feisible if it broke on LoS, is why I said it shouldn't.  I don't think it should be effected by whatever the affliction talent that effects drains is, for up to 60% more drained.  I also think it should break easier on range.  For now, you have to go incredibly far for it to stop working, and almost always means the entire duration's already gone off.

I also think mana burn should take less mana when it deals less mana.  Seeing a ~500 pt mana burn get resisted 50% for 250 dmg from my aura and cloak enchant, and still taking 1000 mana is cool.




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