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Fear change in recent build


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#41 Levidian

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:20 PM

Except for the fact that the majority of teams that are DPS/Healer the dps has really high survivability (hunters and dk's especially)


The only thing I can do I stop you from applying dots for 5 seconds. Deterrence does nothing to dots already on me.

Hunter's are able to stay alive mainly because we can move decently well away from melee. Our movement is getting shit on in 3.1 and we'll be one of the easiest classes to kill. Trust me on this training a hunter is going to be THE thing to do in 3.1 if you're fighting one. Hell my teams already go for enemy hunters.

Anyway hunters in 3.1 is off topic.... please continue the fear discussion.
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#42 Streygo

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:20 PM

So basically back to using long duration control ability as a long duration control ability just like everyone else with a high duration CC has to do.

The change is good for the health of the game where fear isn't just used as a blanket cast that's valuable on anyone you cast it on at basically any time.

If warlocks can lean less on fear then It might open you guys up to getting improvements in other areas if necessary (which in turn can help the class out in the long run being more well rounded) For example warlocks still don't have an O shit button like iceblock etc.


Fear is pretty terrible as far as CC's go its the ability with the most counter abilities. 2 our damage is weaker and more difficult to get out compared to just about every other dps class in the game in arena, its why warlocks rely so heavily on fear.

If Blizzard wants to give us a CC that doesent have so many counters and stronger more easily applied damage then i guess a huge nerf to fear wouldnt be to bad. But i dont see that happening.
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#43 Oomlock

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:20 PM

Affliction warlocks lack those things.

I don't know if I changed any minds with any blogs I've posted or not but I think blizzard is starting to realize affliction is (and you really can't deny it) an extremely hard tree to balance due to it's damage delivery (which I've mentioned before).

Hopefully destruction becomes a well rounded tree and it already has a lot going for it with the ability to become a good fast paced PvP class.

Do people actually like the affliction tank/dot play style?

Regardless I hope you guys end up with a good fun balanced tree for 3.1 destruction looks like ridiculous fun.


i hope destruction is awesome.
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#44 Tya

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:21 PM

Affliction warlocks lack those things.

I don't know if I changed any minds with any blogs I've posted or not but I think blizzard is starting to realize affliction is (and you really can't deny it) an extremely hard tree to balance due to it's damage delivery (which I've mentioned before).

Hopefully destruction becomes a well rounded tree and it already has a lot going for it with the ability to become a good fast paced PvP class.

Do people actually like the affliction tank/dot play style?

Regardless I hope you guys end up with a good fun balanced tree for 3.1 destruction looks like ridiculous fun.


Destruction is fundamentally broken from the ground up. Destro has always been a good 1v1 spec, right now it's probably a better 1v1 spec than affliction.

The problem is that no kind soul is willing to sit there waiting for us to cast our long nukes without anything to actually keep them in place. Seduce doesn't cut it with her 6k mana (seduce costs 1k) and imp level health. Shadowfury only grants us 1.5 seconds of free reign, and our main source of damage relies on easily dispellable Immolate.

All in all destro is a poor man's mage, not an affliction replacement. It certainly isn't viable with a healer in 2v2, which I dare say is where a lot of locks spend their time.
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#45 bluetorch

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:21 PM

I love how things change..
Start of season every one was saying that warlocks are broken class we cant do any thing.
When people actually start to manage after they get gear and DK & healers etc get a counter combo they cry for nerfs..

And levidia you really cant compare affliction to tank/dot style of game play.
More of dot/kite/cc, try tanking some damage standing still like in old seasons and your healer goes either oom or you get nuked down.
I know your a good player but i just feel like this tears of yours are only coming out becose some warlocks are beating you down hard?

No offence
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#46 Levidian

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:22 PM

if locks need to be compensated in different areas thats fine, but fear being used as a "stun" was broken. it was one thing when fearing a target while DPSing had completely random results (could easily break instantly, effectively wasting a DR), but now that its entirely predictable and you can "fearlock" someone by stacking up dots during the first long duration one, and chaining it into new ones before it ends, with no fear of it breaking (since you know the set damage required to break it).

honestly was playing 2s the other day against lock/pali, and about ten minutes into the game i ate a fear where my tremor got stomped, and my trinket was down (yes the first fear over a 10 minute game where this happened). I was at 100% with riptide running, and said to my partner "yea i'm dead my tremor got stomped". sure enough that fear got chained into two new fears which were about to end around 40% when i inevitably ate the hoj and died. there is no way you should be able to eat a fear at 100% with no dots, and hots rolling, and ~know~ you are going to die, since fear has such a high damage cap with no chance of breaking if the lock knows its limits


LMAO I've heard the same thing from Unreal.

He'll be 90% and he'll be like yea I'm gonna die.
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#47 Zatolol

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:22 PM

If i wanted to play destruction, i´ll level a mage. Afliction is the trademark of warlocks and imo fear is only broken because other classes can make the final hit wich triggers the % take 5-6k of life, they should change this to only affect others damage and not the dots of the lock. If you get feared while FULL doted you deserve to loose 50% hp.
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#48 Tya

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:24 PM

Yes but take fear away and you'll never die. No MS, no burst, no alternative CC.
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#49 Levidian

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:25 PM

Destruction is fundamentally broken from the ground up. Destro has always been a good 1v1 spec, right now it's probably a better 1v1 spec than affliction.

The problem is that no kind soul is willing to sit there waiting for us to cast our long nukes without anything to actually keep them in place. Seduce doesn't cut it with her 6k mana (seduce costs 1k) and imp level health. Shadowfury only grants us 1.5 seconds of free reign, and our main source of damage relies on easily dispellable Immolate.

All in all destro is a poor man's mage, not an affliction replacement. It certainly isn't viable with a healer in 2v2, which I dare say is where a lot of locks spend their time.


Mages aren't really viable with a healer in 2v2 either and they basically fill the same roles in group.

The 2v2 bracket is imbalanced and really can't hold much say in class changes because if classes were balanced around 2v2 they would all be homogenized to all have a healing debuff, a snare, an interrupt, etc.

What do you think destruction needs to be viable in 3v3? They seem to just keep throwing + damage at the spec instead of anything else.
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#50 Tya

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:28 PM

Destruction will be (is?) fine in 3v3. It's not 3v3 people are worried about, it's 2v2.

I think as a class we deserve to be viable in all brackets, even if the focus isn't on 2v2 balance.
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#51 Levidian

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:29 PM

I love how things change..
Start of season every one was saying that warlocks are broken class we cant do any thing.
When people actually start to manage after they get gear and DK & healers etc get a counter combo they cry for nerfs..

And levidia you really cant compare affliction to tank/dot style of game play.
More of dot/kite/cc, try tanking some damage standing still like in old seasons and your healer goes either oom or you get nuked down.
I know your a good player but i just feel like this tears of yours are only coming out becose some warlocks are beating you down hard?

No offence


I don't mind losing to warlocks. I mind losing because I got feared behind a pillar or down a ramp to where the RNG aspect of the ability completely fucked me over rather than the fear itself.

At least now when it happens I won't come out of it at 50% life with dots still ticking after running 25 yards from my healer.

I know the fear pathing thing works both ways but it should be the control that has the main impact not where some random math runs you.
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#52 Zatolol

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:30 PM

if that´s what worries you then make it a cower effect like dnd was, most locks will be happy with this change, I assure you.
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#53 Aneraxium

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:30 PM

no


No?

Reasons as to how DPS/Shaman can survive burst while the Warlock is fearing the Shaman;

Shaman/Rogue;
- Cloak of Shadows
- Vanish -> Cheap Shot/Garrote
- Kick
- Blind
- Gouge
- Arcane Torrent / WoTF


Shaman/Paladin;
- Cleanse
- Divine Shield
- Hammer of Justice
- Repentance
- Turn Evil
- Arcane Torrent


Shaman/Hunter;
- Scatter Shot
- Feign Death (obviously not helping that much, but still can prevent some kind of burst damage thats being cast)
- Deterrence
- Arcane Torrent
- Frost Trap or Concussive Shot + LoS


Shaman/DK;
- AMS
- Strangulate
- Gnaw
- Mind Freeze
- Death Grip
- Death Pact
- Death Strike
- Arcane Torrent / WoTF



I probably missed some
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#54 Levidian

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:31 PM

If i wanted to play destruction, i´ll level a mage. Afliction is the trademark of warlocks and imo fear is only broken because other classes can make the final hit wich triggers the % take 5-6k of life, they should change this to only affect others damage and not the dots of the lock. If you get feared while FULL doted you deserve to loose 50% hp.


Affliction only became the trade mark because it was the only thing that worked in arena for so long. MM become the trade mark for hunters but we had to adapt because the tree aside from being shit for wotlk was trumped by survival.

I can't wait to g back to my MM roots as long as they set the tree up correctly (which it isn't right now).

There were a lot of mages that played destro back in the pre arena days but over time the love for that spec has been replaced by the necessity to play affliction.

People will play what works regardless of how they feel most of the time and I'll wager there are plenty of warlocks that would love to be able to play a viable destruction build.
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#55 Trumtomte

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:31 PM

Hunter's are able to stay alive mainly because we can move decently well away from melee.



lmao
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#56 Innate

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:31 PM

locks will be fine in 2v2 after this change. they will just end up doing the same thing they always used to do in 2v2. either land a kill on the dps via CC on the healer, or just simply run the healer oom with crazy dot pressure while having a pet to stop drinks.

MOST classes cannot simply just kill healers for a win... like hunters right now who win pretty much every game by CCing the healer and killing the dps, or just running the healer oom
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#57 Oomlock

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:32 PM

just 1 instant cast move sorta like a mages icelance, and then an immunity move or a small damage absorbing shield.

thats what i think would be needed to make it better.

destruction that is
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#58 Aneraxium

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:33 PM

locks will be fine in 2v2 after this change. they will just end up doing the same thing they always used to do in 2v2. either land a kill on the dps via CC on the healer, or just simply run the healer oom with crazy dot pressure while having a pet to stop drinks.

MOST classes cannot simply just kill healers for a win... like hunters right now who win pretty much every game by CCing the healer and killing the dps, or just running the healer oom


Lol shamans going oom in arena

thats funny
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#59 Levidian

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:33 PM

if that´s what worries you then make it a cower effect like dnd was, most locks will be happy with this change, I assure you.


There were a lot of people with opposition to the idea when I discussed it in another thread and they mainly cited the ability being less viable as a defensive mechanism to gain distance on a target.

My point throughout the thread was if fear becomes a cower and warlocks need more ability to escape then maybe they need tweaking to another ability to let them escape melee easier.
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#60 Smir

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 07:33 PM

i´m a bit worried about 2s as warlock pal
cause if i cant kill the healer or i cant dot both (cause then fear will get useless cause it breaks too early) i see much problems as pal warlock
with a druid as healer i can (as said some pages befor) just kill the dd of the pal by ccing the pally
the one that isn´t focused @ druid/wl is able to cc the pal well
but as pal warlock there isn´t enough cc to nuke something down
on critshock destroyes the complete work

but well, we´ll see what it will result in
in 3s and 5s i don´t see problems, but 2s will probably will make problems


i hope for the best :)
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