Jump to content

Photo

WTB approximate stat dmg proportions (ArP, AP, haste, etc)


  • Please log in to reply
18 replies to this topic

#1 Fierss

Fierss
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Firetree
  • Reckoning
  • Posts: 5,967
  • Talents: Protection

Posted 25 March 2009 - 02:03 PM

I'm gearing up my DK, and I'm constantly debating between items that have large quantities of different stats (haste, crit, ArP, expertise, etc), and I can't figure out which is better.


For example:
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40318
vs
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39620

It comes down to 30 sta and 78 armor pen vs 59 haste. Armor pen is a piss poor stat, but haste isn't great either and I use unholy presence over blood 90%+ of the time. Or do I go with hateful pants, which is a loss of 28 Crit+59 Haste, but a gain of 43 Sta+59 Resilience? :/


Also comparing a significantly better helm with no meta to one with one. I think that comparison comes down to 30 stam, 72 crit vs 73 haste and 3% crit dmg (fire scorched vs helm of the unsubmissive).


Does anyone have approximate PvP dps proportions of stats, or some advice for me? I know it's not major, but I'd like to do the best I can with what's available.

If it matters, I have 22k hp, 460 resil, 2780ap (lol), 23.5% crit, 59 haste, 59 ArP, and way more hit than I need (9.6% + racial)
  • 0

#2 Ansi

Ansi
  • Premium Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • EU-Argent Dawn
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 663
  • Talents: Protection 1/1/1/1/1/2/2
  • 2v2: 1027
  • RBG: 1708
  • LocationCold North

Posted 25 March 2009 - 02:17 PM

Here's a decent guideline. You can use it in conjunction with this.
  • 0

#3 Fierss

Fierss
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Firetree
  • Reckoning
  • Posts: 5,967
  • Talents: Protection

Posted 25 March 2009 - 02:21 PM

The item comparison tool is good for finding out what numbers to compare (duh), but doesn't have any actual numbers.

Those numbers are assuming PvE specs, with raid buffs, with 100% time on a target. While it's better than nothing, it's not very useful from a PvP standpoint. I know ap and crit far outweigh haste and armor pen, because melee is such a small portion of your damage (though still a decent portion of your killing force, since you rarely make a kill without being in melee).

Thanks for giving me at least SOMETHING to go by though :). However, I would appreciate a more pvp-based guideline, if anyone can come up with one.



I'm figuring haste >> armor pen, because it also effects my pet damage, but that's the best assumption I've come up with so far, and it's a bit too vague to be useful.
  • 0

#4 Whillwinz

Whillwinz
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Stonemaul
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 1,547
  • Talents: Destruction

Posted 25 March 2009 - 02:39 PM

Armor pen is worthless unless you are blood, in which case haste is worthless since the primary use of haste in PVP is to increase KM procs.

The only point that I would add, that people may debate me on, is that Haste > Crit for Unholy/Frost specs since KM greatly devalues crit.

So...

Blood- AP>Crit>ArP>>>Haste
Frost/Unholy - AP>Haste>Crit>>>ArP
  • 0
:warlock::paladin::warrior::shaman:

#5 Fierss

Fierss
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Firetree
  • Reckoning
  • Posts: 5,967
  • Talents: Protection

Posted 25 March 2009 - 02:44 PM

Both are pretty bad, but neither is useless as any spec. I'm trying to find proportions between them.

Also, pretty sure haste doesn't chance KM proc rate?
  • 0

#6 Whillwinz

Whillwinz
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Stonemaul
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 1,547
  • Talents: Destruction

Posted 25 March 2009 - 02:51 PM

Well technically no melee stat is "useless" but since one stat is far worse than any other stat depending on your spec, they are relatively useless.

Haste gives you more KMs.
  • 0
:warlock::paladin::warrior::shaman:

#7 Fierss

Fierss
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Firetree
  • Reckoning
  • Posts: 5,967
  • Talents: Protection

Posted 25 March 2009 - 02:53 PM

PPM based abilities don't usually work that way. Do you have a source? If not, I can go hit a target dummy for a few minutes and find out.
  • 0

#8 nerfbat

nerfbat
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Bleeding Hollow
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 26
  • Talents: Assassination

Posted 25 March 2009 - 03:04 PM

PPM based abilities don't usually work that way. Do you have a source? If not, I can go hit a target dummy for a few minutes and find out.


im pretty sure there was a debate somewhere in the forums after the change was made to PPM

if you do find it, link here please :)
  • 0

#9 Whillwinz

Whillwinz
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Stonemaul
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 1,547
  • Talents: Destruction

Posted 25 March 2009 - 03:08 PM

Ya just search this DK forum for other threads on haste/KM where I showed proof.
  • 0
:warlock::paladin::warrior::shaman:

#10 Fierss

Fierss
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Firetree
  • Reckoning
  • Posts: 5,967
  • Talents: Protection

Posted 25 March 2009 - 03:09 PM

http://www.arenajunk...g machine haste
was the thread about it. but doesn't seem to have a conclusive answer.


Redundant, you realize like 50% of the top teams have death knights on them, right? Simply because it's an overpowered class doesn't mean you can auto-win against other overpowered classes (hunters, ret pallies, certain teams with engineering trinkets), or other DKs as an opponent. I'm at 2400 on a DK because the class is a joke, but also because I'm significantly outplaying the other DKs at this rating. I'd like to continue destroying most of them, and my gear is too far behind at this point to believe I can keep doing it for long.


At least be a bit clever with your flames on DKs. I'm not posting about how amazing I am for playing an easymode class to a high rating, but rather trying to do the best I can as that class, like I do for my 3 other classes, which hardly merits the garbage you're posting. And just because some DKs want to get some lvl 50 weapons to cheese their way on a cheese class to easily attainable ratings doesn't mean I do.
  • 0

#11 Yur

Yur

Posted 25 March 2009 - 04:11 PM

cry more, DK scum


Aww, bad mage who isn't running rmp is crying, how tragic! Since I can remember, mages have always been the biggest whiners. Why, I don't know, but god 99% of your class is le cry fest, while 99% of dks are terrible, which is true, but that doesn't mean there isn't a distinction from a lol shadowfrost dk to a good dk. So, get out mah forums cHITTY.
  • 0

#12 Windwalk

Windwalk
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Burning Blade
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 3,023
  • Talents:

Posted 25 March 2009 - 04:15 PM

they're not your forums you fucking downy

mages are fine, we have a shade too much control (shattered barrier) but I'm not whining about my class you fucking moron, I'm whining about yours
  • 0

When I talk to or see successful gamers they come off as intelligent people who are able to develop the ever important “game sense” with relative ease. Aside from muscle memory and the mechanics of playing a video game they seem to just understand what needs to be done to compete and outthink their opponents.


#13 Yur

Yur

Posted 25 March 2009 - 05:37 PM

they're not your forums you fucking downy

mages are fine, we have a shade too much control (shattered barrier) but I'm not whining about my class you fucking moron, I'm whining about yours


Run RMP and profit, quiet bad.
  • 0

#14 Fierss

Fierss
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Firetree
  • Reckoning
  • Posts: 5,967
  • Talents: Protection

Posted 25 March 2009 - 07:11 PM

anyway, back on topic...>.>
  • 0

#15 Windwalk

Windwalk
  • Members
  • Undeadclass_name
  • US-Burning Blade
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 3,023
  • Talents:

Posted 25 March 2009 - 09:33 PM

Run RMP and profit, quiet bad.

I play pmr and paladin/rogue/mage on 2 different mages

thanks for the amazing tip though
  • 0

When I talk to or see successful gamers they come off as intelligent people who are able to develop the ever important “game sense” with relative ease. Aside from muscle memory and the mechanics of playing a video game they seem to just understand what needs to be done to compete and outthink their opponents.


#16 mirag

mirag
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Stormscale
  • Cyclone / Wirbelsturm
  • Posts: 722
  • Talents:

Posted 25 March 2009 - 10:35 PM

The value of haste is obviously hightly dependant on what pressence you use.

When in blood/frost evory bit of the global cd that gets choped of helps.
  • 0

#17 Pobzy

Pobzy
  • Junkies
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • EU-Dragonmaw
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Posts: 664
  • Talents:

Posted 25 March 2009 - 10:50 PM

The value of haste is obviously hightly dependant on what pressence you use.

When in blood/frost evory bit of the global cd that gets choped of helps.


The GCD isn't reduced for melee classes. (lol dks are melee)
  • 0

#18

  • Moderators
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • EU-Illidan
  • Cataclysme / Cataclysm
  • Talents: Enhancement

Posted 25 March 2009 - 11:11 PM

The GCD isn't reduced for melee classes. (lol dks are melee)

it is reduced for spells, aka it strangulate deathcoil summon gargoyle etcetc
  • 0

#19 Fierss

Fierss
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Firetree
  • Reckoning
  • Posts: 5,967
  • Talents: Protection

Posted 26 March 2009 - 12:37 PM

The value of haste is obviously hightly dependant on what pressence you use.

When in blood/frost evory bit of the global cd that gets choped of helps.


and I use unholy presence over blood 90%+ of the time.

.
  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<