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ret damage needs to be toned down


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#1 Guest_Alphatier_*

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 11:19 PM

/discuss

they are pretty much ridiculous, double healer ret teams on TR killing people like crazy, any rogue can die in a HoJ, gets healed up whoops let's switch to the mage and 2-shot him

fair game
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#2 Kags

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 11:28 PM

RMP is ridiculous. Mage deep freezes, polys all of the other team at the same time, and then 1 hits target with shatter.


this is an absurd topic
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Retmage gladiator club!
Xfire:kagunster but i don't stream often

#3 Niceratings

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 11:31 PM

Double Healer warrior never worked
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#4 Guest_Alphatier_*

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 11:31 PM

ye maybe you should watch TR streams

PS: I would like you to discuss instead of responding with bs which probably proves my point
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#5 Rueben SR_US

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 11:39 PM

I just had a premonition: this thread will soon be full of factual information and healthy discussion.

What is there to discuss? Sk gaming top 100? Warriors coming in here and crying that they got judged for 11k?

Ret has glaring weaknesses. Since beta you've all but ignored them and concentrated on its strengths and how anyone saying anything other than ret is OP is a retard. If you don't remember, I tried to engage in discussion with you about this topic and you borderline flamed me into oblivion with the help of 9,000 other gladiator druids/locks/rogues.

You choose to ignore it's weaknesses as if they don't exist. How can anyone engage you in a discussion, that being the case?
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#6 Enim

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 11:41 PM

Double healer retri is the least of our problems, double healer hunter is 5 times as op, but luckily they're being nerfed.

Don't really see how you die against a double healer retri, I wouldn't see my own teams die until oom anyways :P, possibly unable to kill one of them but I highly doubt anyone would die until I go really low on mana.
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#7 Prov

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 11:48 PM

I don't really mind ret paladin damage much, a lot of other glasses give me way more trouble. They did shit on my rogue like there was no tomorrow though.
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I really hope blizzard does something about this. because the Impossibleness of cleave to beat any comp, really, is just an excruciating process that involves immense skill and luck. Buff warriors death knights and pallys, nerf mages and rogues.


#8 Horrible

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 11:50 PM

At least ret paladin damage is entirely predictable, every 6/7/8 seconds you'll take the 5-15k damage
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#9 Qwey

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 11:54 PM

what horrible said is basically what it comes down to. They have a 30s stun, no slow, no pummel, its just all rng crits.
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#10 Lilyi

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 11:56 PM

Ret paladin damage is pretty predictable, they have crap interrupts and no MS. As a priest, I find a solo ret paladin easier to survive than almost any other dps class. I think the class has a unique, fun, flavor right now and don't want to see that destroyed by making them cookie cutter with less damage and a MS or something.

That said, I would be ok if they reduced the burst some (because when you pair high burst with another player's MS or high burst it can get out of hand) and compensated them with some other utility, as long as it's not a MS and preferably not a snare or interrupt. A distance closer maybe?
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#11 Laserz

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Posted 24 March 2009 - 11:59 PM

DOUBLE HEALER RET: THE WAY OF THE FUTURE!!!

Honestly the problem with rets is except for once every 30 seconds you can just sit there and cast in their face. They can never put very much pressure on any healer solo unless you are dieing in six seconds because they have no interrupts. My strategy for living versus rets is: sit there and water shield tank while casting. The problem is they are ridiculous when paired with someone that you can't just sit there and cast through.

The only reason you would ever see double healer ret on tr is because it works really well against pally/lock/x (yeah including shadowcleave or w/e the fuck it's called). But any kind of double physical dps teams and you're fucked. Good rmps can also give you a run for your money.
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#12 Rudeface

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:01 AM

You choose to ignore it's weaknesses as if they don't exist. How can anyone engage you in a discussion, that being the case?


What are your weaknesses if i may inquire?

The big problem with most of the classes that are over the top (feral, retri, hunters, and dk's), is that they all like to compare themselves to eachother as an argument as why NOT to get nerfed.
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DKs make me lol. It's like a hobo winning the lotto, no one knew of him before he got rich and no one likes them.


#13 Guest_Alphatier_*

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:05 AM

At least ret paladin damage is entirely predictable, every 6/7/8 seconds you'll take the 5-15k damage


burst wins games, that is the problem. Probably it isn't their damage that needs to be toned down, but the burst.

Come 3.1, ret paladins will get exorcism as a new damage ability, yet not lose anything. I don't see how that can be fair when they also provide their healer with a replenishment and their damage is already very high.

They sure have weaknesses. For one, their survivability. If you see more glaring weaknesses please enlighten me, cause I really don't. They can kill anyone near them in a matter of seconds, so kiting isn't really a problem (have a mage kiting you while the rogue is on you? just turn around, use one HoJ and the rogue might be dead, woops) especially when they got HoF.
Still, there might be weaknesses I don't see, tell me.

I don't say rets shouldn't be able to kill healers in 2s with the help of their partner or anything, I like every class to be viable with healers, but imo rets are a bit over the top atm.

Honestly the problem with rets is except for once every 30 seconds you can just sit there and cast in their face. They can never put very much pressure on any healer solo unless you are dieing in six seconds because they have no interrupts. My strategy for living versus rets is: sit there and water shield tank while casting. The problem is they are ridiculous when paired with someone that you can't just sit there and cast through.


ye, but when you get that HoJ, often times you will be dead flat out. My paladin partner also got repentanced, shot from about 16k hp to ridiculously low in one global and then got BE silenced. I know that's a weak argument, but if a ret can do that solo, I don't wanna see what's gonna happen when his partner(s) help him.
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#14 Vitrie

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:22 AM

Nerf Ret burst and give the class something else in terms of offense, yes please.
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#15 Windwalk

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:24 AM

At least ret paladin damage is entirely predictable, every 6/7/8 seconds you'll take the 5-15k damage

hahaha this

my rogue partner in 3s: "Healing a ret paladin's damage is like healing patchwerk."
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When I talk to or see successful gamers they come off as intelligent people who are able to develop the ever important “game sense” with relative ease. Aside from muscle memory and the mechanics of playing a video game they seem to just understand what needs to be done to compete and outthink their opponents.


#16 Laserz

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:43 AM

ye, but when you get that HoJ, often times you will be dead flat out. My paladin partner also got repentanced, shot from about 16k hp to ridiculously low in one global and then got BE silenced. I know that's a weak argument, but if a ret can do that solo, I don't wanna see what's gonna happen when his partner(s) help him.


Then your paladin is wearing shit gear or the ret was wearing absurd pve gear (in which case he should be easy to kill, they really have no defensive shit to pop besides bubble and putting on a shield which will hurt their damage a lot). I know I am going to seem really biased because I play with a ret in 2s and 3s but seriously I have never died to a ret paladin solo. There is no reason your partner should even be below 100% except for a second or two after he gets hit because you can just stand there and cast through his damage. They have 0 interrupts besides HoJ and of all people your partner is a paladin that can just freedom out of it and cast in his face. Ret paladins aren't underpowered but they don't really put very much pressure on anyone because you just sit there and heal yourself through it. They are just one of the classes you actually have to keep your partner pretty much topped off rather than leaving him to go drink or something.
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#17 Guest_Alphatier_*

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:51 AM

792 resilience, no BoH and wings popped, sure not an everysecond scenario, but in a healer+x vs healer+x fight it happens often :>
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#18 Jorenm

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:54 AM

Wings burst is pretty terrifying, and something as easy as a cast sequence dps macro probably shouldn't net you a good chance at a kill.
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#19 Magdain

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:55 AM

hahaha this

my rogue partner in 3s: "Healing a ret paladin's damage is like healing patchwerk."


Like healing patchwerk except you have 1 healer instead of 4.

You can't say "ret damage is predictable so it's balanced" when you're talking about a scenario where the healer is chain casting instead of, idk, being cc'd for 12 seconds by unpreventable instant cast ranged ccs every minute.
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#20 Rueben SR_US

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Posted 25 March 2009 - 12:55 AM

So much exaggeration. Let me get this straight: you seem to be implying that our kitability is a non-issue because we can kill anyone we want, whenever we want, in a matter of seconds, even if we have a mage spamming frostbolt on us with wound poison up.

Right.
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