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Anyone tried dueling healers on the PTR?


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#21 Dunsparrow

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 01:27 AM

GC once said that if they were going to give MS to all dps classes, they might as well just make it an aura in arenas. I'm starting to think it might be better for the game if they just did that. It'd certainly be easier to balance.


GC knows about as much about arena as John McCain does about winning elections. Because of this, she is also completely incapable of understanding the developers intentions when they do things and at best she acts as a mediocre conduit to devs about specific issues.

She's much better about PvE concerns, but I would take anything she says about arena with a grain of salt.
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#22 Nifti

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 01:32 AM

its a HE, and he is lead designer :>
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#23 Desmond

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 01:34 AM

GC knows about as much about arena as John McCain does about winning elections. Because of this, she is also completely incapable of understanding the developers intentions when they do things and at best she acts as a mediocre conduit to devs about specific issues.

She's much better about PvE concerns, but I would take anything she says about arena with a grain of salt.


I'd never suggest that GC is the end all and be all of wow knowledge. However, with how many DK discussions center around "we do too much damage" "we have to or we can't kill anything without an MS" "But now you're too deadly with an MS". The solution of giving universal MS + buffing/nerfing all damage to an acceptable medium would be a pretty decent solution, no?

At the very least, can you agree that it'd be easier to balance?
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#24 harlequinkopeck

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 01:44 AM

that sounds awesome
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#25 swordscream

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 01:47 AM

meh, my druid partner was able to tank my warrior in S4 just standing in caster form and rolling HoTs, and that is with MS. I think this is the chess that everyone wants.
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USMC OIF 04-05

#26 Whillwinz

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 01:51 AM

@OP, you tried to beat a disease-cleansing, plate-wearing class by doing half physical damage and half magical damage that completely relies on diseases bring present, and you had no dispel resistance and lost. Who'da thunk it?

And yes druids could tank MS warriors in s3-s4 with 0 armor, sitting there rolling hots on themselves, nothing new there.

DKs should be fine, no other melee can solo a druid or paladin in any reasonable amount of time either.
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:warlock::paladin::warrior::shaman:

#27 Nifti

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 01:55 AM

Im not against bringing back the "chess" style of game, but a druid tanking a dk until he is oom is just as stupid as a dk killing a druid in 10 secs.
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#28 Windwalk

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 01:56 AM

but I still had a VERY hard time taking him out

It's called balance, enjoy it.
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#29 thevidon

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:10 AM

There is too much of a razors edge trying to balance non MS classes against healers. Either they have enough burst to down a healer during their interrupts, or they have to OOM them. If that shaman or paladin comes out of the interrupt window alive they are back to full health instantly without MS on them. Nobody that I know likes this bursty play style.

There should be an MS aura - and all classes should have their damage tuned against it.

I.e. DK's and rets get their damage nerfed, warriors (arms) get buffed etc. etc. I have the sneaking suspicion that rogues would be better off as a class if they had MS removed and got a bunch of passive defense in its place. It would make them less of a "win in the first 1 minute or give up" type class. (Incoming rogue flames oh god - get out of our forum)

Basically the instant DK's cannot burst healers down within our interrupts, we will lose pretty much all viability in 2's as the opposing teams will just sit on us with MS up all game.
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#30 Dunsparrow

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:13 AM

its a HE, and he is lead designer :>


Ghostcrawler is a female community manager. She does nothing but talk to designers. You have her confused with someone else.
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#31 Dynimight

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:16 AM

Im not against bringing back the "chess" style of game, but a druid tanking a dk until he is oom is just as stupid as a dk killing a druid in 10 secs.


I disagree. That is how 2s should be. Healers either tank until oom, or they die in a strangulate. One option is better than the other, and it doesn't involve strangulate.
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you're all subconsciously racists. hunters are fine.


#32 Prov

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:18 AM

GC knows about as much about arena as John McCain does about winning elections. Because of this, she is also completely incapable of understanding the developers intentions when they do things and at best she acts as a mediocre conduit to devs about specific issues.

She's much better about PvE concerns, but I would take anything she says about arena with a grain of salt.


ghostcrawler often has no idea what he's talking about, i agree. Nevertheless, it would be easier to balance.
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I really hope blizzard does something about this. because the Impossibleness of cleave to beat any comp, really, is just an excruciating process that involves immense skill and luck. Buff warriors death knights and pallys, nerf mages and rogues.


#33 Prov

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:19 AM

Im not against bringing back the "chess" style of game, but a druid tanking a dk until he is oom is just as stupid as a dk killing a druid in 10 secs.


there are 2 options. One sacrifices a degree of balance in 2s for substantially more balance in the other brackets, the other sacrifices balance in all brackets so that all non-ms melee can be viable with healers in 2s.
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I really hope blizzard does something about this. because the Impossibleness of cleave to beat any comp, really, is just an excruciating process that involves immense skill and luck. Buff warriors death knights and pallys, nerf mages and rogues.


#34 Whillwinz

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:24 AM

No class should be able to solo a healer class in such a small window. That's why there's no 1v1 bracket. Learn to use partners.

That is all.
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:warlock::paladin::warrior::shaman:

#35 thevidon

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:26 AM

there are 2 options. One sacrifices a degree of balance in 2s for substantially more balance in the other brackets, the other sacrifices balance in all brackets so that all non-ms melee can be viable with healers in 2s.


No. There is another option. Adding an MS aura to arenas and removing MS as an ability. They can then retune damage/interrupts as needed.
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#36 Nifti

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:27 AM

Ghostcrawler is a female community manager. She does nothing but talk to designers. You have her confused with someone else.


http://www.wowwiki.com/Greg_Street
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#37 euronymous

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:35 AM

Personally I'm hoping there's a happy medium between burst-orientated and mana-orientated arena play.
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#38 Rudeface

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:38 AM

there are 2 options. One sacrifices a degree of balance in 2s for substantially more balance in the other brackets, the other sacrifices balance in all brackets so that all non-ms melee can be viable with healers in 2s.


This. And the guy who said the only ms-less class that was viable for 2's = warlock, is wrong. Mage/priest was viable, so was hunter prior to MS and some people even made feral/enhancement work. Of course it was never as easy as it is now, but people still have the option of playing 2dps. And in the case of balanced classes without MS - they HAVE to play 2dps.

Everyone knows feral/dk/retri burst is out of control, even people who play the class and have half a brain will admit to it. Just because blizzard dropped this game out of beta, and you found yourself viable for 2's with a healer - doesn't mean you are entitled to get mortal strike just so it can stay that way.

Stop acting retarded and realize some speccs/classes need a heavy nerf for the sake of the game.
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DKs make me lol. It's like a hobo winning the lotto, no one knew of him before he got rich and no one likes them.


#39 Magus

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:38 AM

the only class that could beat good Hpaladins 1v1 were warlocks anywho so i see no real difference.
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#40 summlan

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 02:43 AM

Sounds perfectly fine that a dk cant drop a healer until OOM. Thats how it should have been from the start. And all this jibberish about adding MS as an aura is just bullshit. We have 3 classes with MS-debuff thats fine.

Hopefully DK/Healer wont be a viable setup in 3.1
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