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Anyone tried dueling healers on the PTR?


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#1 Denzion

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 07:38 PM

I spent a long while dueling a holy pally and resto druid, both in full PVP gear on the PTR and it was not a good experience.

First tried fighting the holy pally as as a 20/51/0 frost spec. (he was 51/20/0) and I couldn't ever get him below about 70% life. He never even had to cast a single spell only used instants. Obliterate was only critting for about 3k, and he easily out healed my frost strikes, mainly because he kept cleansing off frost fever so I had to keep reapplying it.

Then I tried a 17/0/54 unholy build. this one did alot better, but I still had a VERY hard time taking him out. In fact the only time I won was when I got a crit chain of 2 SS's and a DC while garg was up. Its crazy how much he was healing for.

Then for the real fun. I tried fighting a resto druid. This was absolutely insane. This time I tried as a 17/0/54 and as a 0/18/53 and I would say I never got this druid below 80% health for more then 1 seconds. He just sat in treeform and tanked me with his hots on. He didnt move, run, cyclone or root me. He didnt need to. Whenever I would get a few SS crits he would swiftmend back to full instantly. His mana not even dropping. It was staggering. I could not kill this druid no matter when I did. He might as well have been invincible.


Had anyone else had any better luck against druids especially?
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#2 balthazaar

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 07:43 PM

Sounds good to me, hope this will go live.
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#3 StÖmp1296679484

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 08:11 PM

I spent a long while dueling a holy pally and resto druid, both in full PVP gear on the PTR and it was not a good experience.

First tried fighting the holy pally as as a 20/51/0 frost spec. (he was 51/20/0) and I couldn't ever get him below about 70% life. He never even had to cast a single spell only used instants. Obliterate was only critting for about 3k, and he easily out healed my frost strikes, mainly because he kept cleansing off frost fever so I had to keep reapplying it.

Then I tried a 17/0/54 unholy build. this one did alot better, but I still had a VERY hard time taking him out. In fact the only time I won was when I got a crit chain of 2 SS's and a DC while garg was up. Its crazy how much he was healing for.

Then for the real fun. I tried fighting a resto druid. This was absolutely insane. This time I tried as a 17/0/54 and as a 0/18/53 and I would say I never got this druid below 80% health for more then 1 seconds. He just sat in treeform and tanked me with his hots on. He didnt move, run, cyclone or root me. He didnt need to. Whenever I would get a few SS crits he would swiftmend back to full instantly. His mana not even dropping. It was staggering. I could not kill this druid no matter when I did. He might as well have been invincible.


Had anyone else had any better luck against druids especially?


This is why im running RDruid 0/18/53 DK in 3.1 :D

Cyclone execute with rune cooldowns is too perfect.
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#4 Iddqd

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 08:24 PM

Sounds good to me, hope this will go live.

QFT.
A class with no MS should not be able to kill a healer solo, especially considering DKs are impossible to outlast because of self heals and defensive CDS. The only hope a healer has of beating you is to burst you down (before you run him completely oom and inevitably kill him through your massive retarded damage output) should you make some terrible mistake and/or fall asleep at your keyboard from playing such an easy boring class.
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#5 Duncan

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 08:28 PM

must be keyboard turning for a druid in pvp gear on ptr to not go oom, our mana is terrible
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#6 Denzion

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 08:44 PM

must be keyboard turning for a druid in pvp gear on ptr to not go oom, our mana is terrible



Even in tree form?
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#7 Duncan

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 08:53 PM

yea our mana is horrible wherever we are or whatever were in as healing spec, and innervate does 35% of my mana pool so gg can't wait to go oom in 3.1
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#8 Nex

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 09:23 PM

QFT.
A class with no MS should not be able to kill a healer solo, especially considering DKs are impossible to outlast because of self heals and defensive CDS. The only hope a healer has of beating you is to burst you down (before you run him completely oom and inevitably kill him through your massive retarded damage output) should you make some terrible mistake and/or fall asleep at your keyboard from playing such an easy boring class.

Healing debuffs or long CC chains being mandatory to score a kill in PVP was something GC explicitly said they were trying to move away from in WotLK. It excluded too many classes/specs from participating in arenas.


The plague strike and blood plague effect on druids is something many DKs would agree to was imbalanced and in need of fixing. The balance swinging completely the other way is however not a fix, it's equally terrible balance.
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#9 Elfiroth

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 10:10 PM

For 3.1
http://talent.mmo-ch...06&version=9704

or

http://talent.mmo-ch...06&version=9704
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#10 Nifti

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 11:09 PM

QFT.
A class with no MS should not be able to kill a healer solo, especially considering DKs are impossible to outlast because of self heals and defensive CDS. The only hope a healer has of beating you is to burst you down (before you run him completely oom and inevitably kill him through your massive retarded damage output) should you make some terrible mistake and/or fall asleep at your keyboard from playing such an easy boring class.


How many classes without MS could play 2on2 with a healer at a competitive level from S1-S4? Exactly, just one: Warlocks. And thats just because they could basically negate half of the MS on them and still had tedious long matches since they could rarely kill someone not OOM.

Why should 2on2 be reserved for MS-class/Warlock + healer ? Im not saying its ok to burst down a healer in 5 seconds like its happening nowadys, but there should be a way to kill them before they are oom imo.
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#11 Fayde

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 11:19 PM

How many classes without MS could play 2on2 with a healer at a competitive level from S1-S4? Exactly, just one: Warlocks. And thats just because they could basically negate half of the MS on them and still had tedious long matches since they could rarely kill someone not OOM.

Why should 2on2 be reserved for MS-class/Warlock + healer ? Im not saying its ok to burst down a healer in 5 seconds like its happening nowadys, but there should be a way to kill them before they are oom imo.


Not trying to refute your point, but hunters were viable in 2v2 as well, even before they got MS.
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#12 Gladcas

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 11:26 PM

I spent a long while dueling a holy pally and resto druid, both in full PVP gear on the PTR and it was not a good experience.

Had anyone else had any better luck against druids especially?


This makes me laugh.
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#13 Hauser

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 11:45 PM

When a sole dps class beats a healer, especially with ease, the game is broken, because that healer's role is negated in pvp.
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#14 Prov

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 12:02 AM

Why should 2on2 be reserved for MS-class/Warlock + healer ? Im not saying its ok to burst down a healer in 5 seconds like its happening nowadys, but there should be a way to kill them before they are oom imo.


because when you take a class that has high enough damage output to be able to get kills in 2s with neither ms nor partner assistance, it's going to be retarded in larger brackets where you can pair them with an ms class.
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I really hope blizzard does something about this. because the Impossibleness of cleave to beat any comp, really, is just an excruciating process that involves immense skill and luck. Buff warriors death knights and pallys, nerf mages and rogues.


#15 wisdomcube

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 12:09 AM

because when you take a class that has high enough damage output to be able to get kills in 2s with neither ms nor partner assistance, it's going to retarded in larger brackets where you can pair them with an ms class.



^
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where was everyone else tonight? 3 hours of No q's followed by 3 hours of getting farmed by Adept?


#16 Superior

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 12:20 AM

When a sole dps class beats a healer, especially with ease, the game is broken, because that healer's role is negated in pvp.


I have always been on the opinion that a solo dps should have a very hard time to kill a healer until he is oom.
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Blizzard:

if you're hardcore enough for 2k, you can forego raiding for a weapon)


#17 Nifti

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 12:23 AM

So basically youre saying non-Ms class damage/CC/interupt must be balanced around running with a MS class completely screwing them for 2s and forcing them to play with a MS class in 3s?
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#18 Superior

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 12:30 AM

Nope, I just don't think you should win games by simple putting damage into their healer.

Which basically a duel vs a healer is.
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Blizzard:

if you're hardcore enough for 2k, you can forego raiding for a weapon)


#19 Prov

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 12:45 AM

So basically youre saying non-Ms class damage/CC/interupt must be balanced around running with a MS class completely screwing them for 2s and forcing them to play with a MS class in 3s?


To a degree (not as extreme as you're stating it), yes. I agree with you that it's stupid, but there's really no alternative aside from allowing non-ms classes to have excessively high damage, or nerfing/changing/rebalancing ms.
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I really hope blizzard does something about this. because the Impossibleness of cleave to beat any comp, really, is just an excruciating process that involves immense skill and luck. Buff warriors death knights and pallys, nerf mages and rogues.


#20 Desmond

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Posted 21 March 2009 - 01:10 AM

GC once said that if they were going to give MS to all dps classes, they might as well just make it an aura in arenas. I'm starting to think it might be better for the game if they just did that. It'd certainly be easier to balance.
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