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New 3.1 PTR (Undocumented) Changes


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#41 Badpanda

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 10:12 PM

Health stones that require melee range to an enemy, a GCD, 2 runes and are susceptible to armor, damage reduction, avoidance, resilience as well as heal debuffs.

Edit: Forgot damage debuffs and disarms.


The fact alone that you think that this ability is somewhat balanced removes all your credibility. It's blatantly overpowered and anyone that dare say it isn't is completely wrong.

PS: don't bring the "says the paladin", I know I'm op.
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#42 Kellhus

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 01:02 PM

Posted Image

I lolled, how can anyone pretend that is balanced? He said, that's with nothing up and pretty average gear. So a player with 25% reduced crit damage from resilience and 5k armor (casterform druids, rogues, mages, priests, warlocks etc) - will take 6k crits from your main nuke, which snares us and heals you for 9k?

Yeah, that sounds balanced....


It's a ptr build, and obviously still going through changes.

SS was hitting for 11k and got nerfed, obliterate was pretty much removed from bloods rotations and they are setting up death strike to take it's place. It's going to take some tweaking obviously so that blood builds are actually usable in pve and not stupid in pvp -- the blizzard dream that is spec equality and all that.

And death strike doesn't snare.
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#43 Kellhus

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 01:03 PM

The fact alone that you think that this ability is somewhat balanced removes all your credibility. It's blatantly overpowered and anyone that dare say it isn't is completely wrong.

PS: don't bring the "says the paladin", I know I'm op.


DS was fine before the 3.1 changes on the PTR. They are just messing with it to make it a standard two-rune strike for blood.. fuck man, ptr went through 3 revs last week alone and you're pretending like the current is the final.
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#44 Dunsparrow

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 01:33 PM

It seems like the most sensible solution for Blood is to have all the talents increase the damage done by DS but leave the healing where it is now.
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#45 Rudeface

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 01:38 PM

It's a ptr build, and obviously still going through changes.

SS was hitting for 11k and got nerfed, obliterate was pretty much removed from bloods rotations and they are setting up death strike to take it's place. It's going to take some tweaking obviously so that blood builds are actually usable in pve and not stupid in pvp -- the blizzard dream that is spec equality and all that.

And death strike doesn't snare.


My bad, but death strike costs 1 unholy/1 frost rune - so you spam it in conjunction with heartstrike which costs 1 blood rune and snares in 3.1?

Either way, that ability isn't balanced this build and hopefully they'll take care of that. But i mean, it's not like 9k oblits haven't been on live for 4 months - even though it doesn't heal.
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DKs make me lol. It's like a hobo winning the lotto, no one knew of him before he got rich and no one likes them.


#46 Kellhus

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 01:58 PM

My bad, but death strike costs 1 unholy/1 frost rune - so you spam it in conjunction with heartstrike which costs 1 blood rune and snares in 3.1?

Either way, that ability isn't balanced this build and hopefully they'll take care of that. But i mean, it's not like 9k oblits haven't been on live for 4 months - even though it doesn't heal.



Physical damage strikes are a bitch though to balance (see also: warriors). If you set the damage too low to begin with they become worthless against armored classes. Set them to do moderate damage against armor and they destroy cloth.

The probably need to do away with the scaling of armor and just call it physical resistance or some shit and have it scale like spell resistances do -- beyond that, I would wager the healing of DS gets reduced but it's still going to hit cloth like a truck. Not sure a way around that which doesn't make the spec absolutely worthless in pve/pvp under the current mechanics.
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#47 Aqueous

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 02:13 PM

ArP is the best way to balance physical strikes, seems they're trying that route with Warriors atm too.
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#48 Grul

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 04:32 PM

how do you beat a dk in 3.1? i think the only way is being a dk too. isnt it?
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#49 Rudeface

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 04:43 PM

Physical damage strikes are a bitch though to balance (see also: warriors). If you set the damage too low to begin with they become worthless against armored classes. Set them to do moderate damage against armor and they destroy cloth.

The probably need to do away with the scaling of armor and just call it physical resistance or some shit and have it scale like spell resistances do -- beyond that, I would wager the healing of DS gets reduced but it's still going to hit cloth like a truck. Not sure a way around that which doesn't make the spec absolutely worthless in pve/pvp under the current mechanics.


Yes, but physical dps has always been shit against high armor - it's only recently that retri/shadowfrost Dk's have been introduced or become good. It's quite clear that durable classes who themselves bypass armor have no real counters like it was "meant" to be.

Then you have ferals/dk's whos damage is set too high, you do decent damage against high armor and totally demolish anything below 10k armor - ref 8k+ obliterates/shreds in 650 resilience and 6k armor.
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DKs make me lol. It's like a hobo winning the lotto, no one knew of him before he got rich and no one likes them.


#50 euronymous

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 05:15 PM

how do you beat a dk in 3.1? i think the only way is being a dk too. isnt it?


Try to keep up, DKs are being nerfed as it stands. Personally I hope we get nerfed to the ground so all the QQ will finally cease.
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#51 Vadren

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 05:17 PM

Hey lets list every downside to every melee attack in the game as justification for those death strike crits.

Oh wait, I think we missed one. Need to be facing the target too. Lolz sorry keyboard turners no death strikes for 8k dmg +12k heals for you.
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#52 euronymous

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 05:23 PM

They'll reduce the deathstrike healing percentage, it isn't even worth mentioning.

But theoretically, if they don't nerf it, blood will still be the gimp pvp tree because it relies on physical damage.
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#53 Magdain

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 05:34 PM

What people seem to miss:
Target dummies don't have resilience or any defensive cooldowns


Yeah you're right. A 6k dmg / 10k heal single ability with no cooldown would be much more balanced on a class that is already overpowered. Thanks for correcting us.
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#54 Mearis

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 05:37 PM

What people seem to miss:
Target dummies don't have resilience or any defensive cooldowns, DS doesn't crit 100% of the time (more like 22% in full PvP gear against enemies wearing resilience), DS required diseases to be up to do any healing, DS can be avoided, DS is affected by MS debuffs.


Those dummies also have a lot more AC than a clothie or a rogue, so it will be hitting a hell of a lot harder against anyone in leather or in cloth.

But theoretically, if they don't nerf it, blood will still be the gimp pvp tree because it relies on physical damage.


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#55 Ardennes

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 05:57 PM

They'll reduce the deathstrike healing percentage, it isn't even worth mentioning.

But theoretically, if they don't nerf it, blood will still be the gimp pvp tree because it relies on physical damage.



Lol... And people wonder why everybody laughs at Death Knights.

Yup, being completely unkillable under any circumstances in Arena is a pretty gimp spec.
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#56 kashflow

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 06:11 PM

It's a ptr build, and obviously still going through changes.

SS was hitting for 11k and got nerfed, obliterate was pretty much removed from bloods rotations and they are setting up death strike to take it's place. It's going to take some tweaking obviously so that blood builds are actually usable in pve and not stupid in pvp -- the blizzard dream that is spec equality and all that.

And death strike doesn't snare.


How can you even defend a 10k heal from a melee attack without a cooldown? Even if it healed 7k it would still be overpowered. I just hope this version of death strike doesn't make live.
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#57 euronymous

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 06:56 PM

Lol... And people wonder why everybody laughs at Death Knights.

Yup, being completely unkillable under any circumstances in Arena is a pretty gimp spec.


You're very bitter.

Blood death knights are already extremely hard to kill. Deathstrike already heals for large amounts (although it has to crit for it to be decent). If there was 1v1 arena then I daresay blood dks would be king.

But the spec puts out pitiful pressure on paladins, and it will be even worse after the patch with the nerfs. So yes, in the current and forseeable arena environment blood dks are gimp compared to the primary magic damage specs.

It boggles my mind you can make such a poorly thought out statement and have such complete faith in it that you're willing to insult someone and deliver it with obnoxious sarcasm.
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#58 Ardennes

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 07:03 PM

You're very bitter.

Blood death knights are already extremely hard to kill. Deathstrike already heals for large amounts (although it has to crit for it to be decent). If there was 1v1 arena then I daresay blood dks would be king.

But the spec puts out pitiful pressure on paladins, and it will be even worse after the patch with the nerfs. So yes, in the current and forseeable arena environment blood dks are gimp compared to the primary magic damage specs.

It boggles my mind you can make such a poorly thought out statement and have such complete faith in it that you're willing to insult someone and deliver it with obnoxious sarcasm.


It boggles my mind that to you the game is apparently balanced around killing Paladins now.
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#59 wraithfury

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 07:05 PM

:confused: why are other classes intent on posting in the dk forums. go cry in the general forums.
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#60 euronymous

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 07:13 PM

It boggles my mind that to you the game is apparently balanced around killing Paladins now.


Well, maybe not, but I think if paladins counter your set up atm you're in for a rough time.
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