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New 3.1 PTR (Undocumented) Changes


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#21 Dunsparrow

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 05:38 PM

Looks way better for FS than it does for DC in my opinion, so I wonder why they didn't do the same as with the SoA (changing the numbers for each skill so the total benefit for each spec is about the same).


It will be pretty good for both. Remember the 380 bonus is pre-Ebon.
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#22 Epicfriggindemic

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 05:48 PM

The new Death Coil sigil will replace Awareness. I dont understand nerfing it. Blizzard's new strategy when releasing new content is to nerf all your current gear so you have no choice but to do it?


More reason for me to re-participate in PVE come 3.1!

OH WAIT
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#23 Hidden

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 06:00 PM

It will be pretty good for both. Remember the 380 bonus is pre-Ebon.


Did some calculations but the forum ate it:(
FS only gets worse +damage than DC if following factors are true:
  • you use no RI in your frost spec
  • you don't have MC in your frost spec
  • you don't have EP/CoE on your enemy when specced Frost
  • you have Desecration up
  • you're specced into Morbidity
  • you're using the DC glyph
  • you have way less crit with FS than with DC (this one alone is practically impossible)

If one of the above factors is false, FS gets more +damage than DC from the sigil. FS always gets more +damage/RP than DC.

That's of course assuming the bonus is pre-modifiers like every bonus has ever been.
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#24 Aqueous

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 06:06 PM

Fairly retarded heals from DStrike atm on the PTR. 10k crits aren't usual, of course not, but 5k+? I'm getting those alot and it translates into 10k heals or higher. IMO that is NOT fine from a main damage nuke, or any leech ability for that matter.

Previously Death Strike was a decision, low damage for your FU but a self heal. Now, it's your staple nuke as Blood so there's no negative side to it - spam your Obliterate-like ability that doesn't consume diseases AND get healed from it for 10k+ each time. It's the new Drain Life, except it's 10x more ridiculous.

A perfect example of an overpowered leech heal is when it trivialises a 2 minute CD specifically designed for healing - yes, I'm talking about DPact. Currently, it's healing me for about 9600 which is fairly equivalent to a single Death Strike - Lol?

So yeah, add on top Rune Tap and MoBlood (though relatively ineffectual in Arena I digress), plus Death Pact and it's a broken joke at the moment. Even if this ability only healed for 50% of its damage instead of the current 80% per disease it'd still be ridiculous; healing of this magnitude needs to be toned down ALOT IMO.

Just to ram it home, let's compare that to Warrior's Bloodthirst. Glyphed it gives you 6% of your Max HP over the next 3 attacks. Your well geared PvP Warrior is sat at about 24k HP, give or take based on Shout, so that's a 1440 heal. 1440 vs. 10k - yeah...that's pretty ridiculous.

PS: Testing it now as we speak. My character on the PTR isn't half as well geared as my live toon due to several upgrades since then including Betrayer, yet with Jawbone and some Naxx 25 epics he's still getting 12k heals with Death Strike from regular crits on the level 80 dummies. This is without Hysteria or Vampiric Blood, just pure Imp Blood Presence and 7k Death Strike crits. Retarded.

Edit: The Sigil of Awareness change I think is pretty stupid with respect to Scourge Strike though. This actually makes Sigil of Arthritic Binding, the blue sigil from Venture Bay, better for Scourge Strike-based damage.
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#25 thevidon

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 07:16 PM

Fairly retarded heals from DStrike atm on the PTR. 10k crits aren't usual, of course not, but 5k+? I'm getting those alot and it translates into 10k heals or higher. IMO that is NOT fine from a main damage nuke, or any leech ability for that matter.

Previously Death Strike was a decision, low damage for your FU but a self heal. Now, it's your staple nuke as Blood so there's no negative side to it - spam your Obliterate-like ability that doesn't consume diseases AND get healed from it for 10k+ each time. It's the new Drain Life, except it's 10x more ridiculous.

A perfect example of an overpowered leech heal is when it trivialises a 2 minute CD specifically designed for healing - yes, I'm talking about DPact. Currently, it's healing me for about 9600 which is fairly equivalent to a single Death Strike - Lol?

So yeah, add on top Rune Tap and MoBlood (though relatively ineffectual in Arena I digress), plus Death Pact and it's a broken joke at the moment. Even if this ability only healed for 50% of its damage instead of the current 80% per disease it'd still be ridiculous; healing of this magnitude needs to be toned down ALOT IMO.

Just to ram it home, let's compare that to Warrior's Bloodthirst. Glyphed it gives you 6% of your Max HP over the next 3 attacks. Your well geared PvP Warrior is sat at about 24k HP, give or take based on Shout, so that's a 1440 heal. 1440 vs. 10k - yeah...that's pretty ridiculous.

PS: Testing it now as we speak. My character on the PTR isn't half as well geared as my live toon due to several upgrades since then including Betrayer, yet with Jawbone and some Naxx 25 epics he's still getting 12k heals with Death Strike from regular crits on the level 80 dummies. This is without Hysteria or Vampiric Blood, just pure Imp Blood Presence and 7k Death Strike crits. Retarded.

Edit: The Sigil of Awareness change I think is pretty stupid with respect to Scourge Strike though. This actually makes Sigil of Arthritic Binding, the blue sigil from Venture Bay, better for Scourge Strike-based damage.


Nobody takes improved blood presence. Dummies do not have resilience. The timer on all of our core defensive cooldowns was just doubled. Lichborne no longer works as a defensive damage reducing cooldown.

Let's see how things play out shall we?
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#26 Levidian

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 07:19 PM

The fact that a class with the defenses of a DK can even heal itself for any meaningful amount is out of line.

It would be like if warlocks had health stones on 10 second cool downs.
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#27 Aqueous

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 07:20 PM

Nobody takes Improved Blood Presence on a streamlined tree where it's possible to pick up pretty much everything needed and still have points spare? I'm supposing you spend those points in Spell Deflection then. In Live, Blood DKs use UP constantly and in offensive comps I expect they still will, however in 3.1 when you play defensively 10% + healing, especially considering the ridiculous amount DStrike self-heals for too, means you ARE going to outmana the opposition regardless of whether you can't get off abilities as quickly with 1.5 sec GCD.

Incidentally, with SDoom as it is and HStrike now snaring it's remarkably easy to unload your Runes and RP as Blood without running into rotation cross-overs - UP is no longer necessary, it's just nice for burst. However, if you're going to spec Blood I would be seriously suggest playing a defensive comp rather than offensive.

And even then let's assume Imp BPres isn't used because you want to play offensively - ok, wow, that 12k heal became 10.8k...I guess that balances it just fine!

Sorry, but it doesn't matter how much buttering up you do 10k+ heals from a main damage nuke that is usable 3 times every 2 rotations is NOT ok. Lichborne having its miss chance removed and VB being increased to 2 minutes means nothing when you self heal for the same amount as a Holy Light 3 times every 20 seconds.

All those nerfs did was attempt to bring DKs back to ground but the Death Strike change has just made Blood ridiculous.

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This is not ok.
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#28 Outkastdjinn

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 07:29 PM

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This is not ok.

However and whenever Blizz decides that their 3.1 changes are complete and balanced, they will slip up. They will slip up, it's almost always happened.

And when they do, you will see the train of :deathknight:s grabbing the new spec, and facerolling yet again. Muwhahaha!
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#29 dotswtfownd

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 08:01 PM

so how exactly is blood strike hitting and healing for 5 digits?

also, where is the soa nerf posted? don't see it on mmo champion.
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#30 Hidden

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 08:34 PM

What people seem to miss:
Target dummies don't have resilience or any defensive cooldowns, DS doesn't crit 100% of the time (more like 22% in full PvP gear against enemies wearing resilience), DS required diseases to be up to do any healing, DS can be avoided, DS is affected by MS debuffs.

I'm not saying DS is too weak or too strong, it's just that DS and Blood in general also has weak sides you have to consider and I'd not like to be pushed into Unholy again just because every other spec gets nerfed as soon as it gets some unique advantage.

also, where is the soa nerf posted? don't see it on mmo champion.

I don't know if it's posted anywhere but when logging onto the PTRs I instantly noticed it, I guess PTRs are more reliable than a fansite.
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#31 Oomlock

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 08:44 PM

The fact that a class with the defenses of a DK can even heal itself for any meaningful amount is out of line.

It would be like if warlocks had health stones on 10 second cool downs.


i actually agree with levidia :cool:
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#32 Hidden

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 08:52 PM

The fact that a class with the defenses of a DK can even heal itself for any meaningful amount is out of line.

It would be like if warlocks had health stones on 10 second cool downs.


Health stones that require melee range to an enemy, a GCD, 2 runes and are susceptible to armor, damage reduction, avoidance, resilience as well as heal debuffs.

Edit: Forgot damage debuffs and disarms.
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#33 Quadzy

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 08:55 PM

so, icy touch damage 20% less now?
meaning frost/shadow 3.1 spec would only(lol) have the same damage as shadowfrost does on live?
on noes
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#34 Hidden

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 08:57 PM

so, icy touch damage 20% less now?
meaning frost/shadow 3.1 spec would only(lol) have the same damage as shadowfrost does on live?
on noes


Have fun speccing 0/51/50.

Why are class forums getting flooded by trolls of all classes by the way? AJ forums have really lost much of their seriousness:(
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#35 dotswtfownd

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 09:01 PM

I don't know if it's posted anywhere but when logging onto the PTRs I instantly noticed it, I guess PTRs are more reliable than a fansite.


thats a pretty substantial nerf. i guess everyone will buy using the badge one or ulduar one for pvp. soa never drops ever for me.:(
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#36 Hidden

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 09:02 PM

thats a pretty substantial nerf. i guess everyone will buy using the badge one or ulduar one for pvp. soa never drops ever for me.:(


It's buyable for Naxx25 marks on PTR now.
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#37 Aqueous

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 09:07 PM

Health stones that require melee range to an enemy, a GCD, 2 runes and are susceptible to armor, damage reduction, avoidance, resilience as well as heal debuffs.

Edit: Forgot damage debuffs and disarms.


Is that an attempt to make it sound balanced? xD.

I would suggest to avoid blindly defending every mechanic our class has regardless of whether it's stupidly OP or not because it severely dampens any credibility we may have when faced with people of different classes.
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#38 Hidden

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 09:31 PM

Is that an attempt to make it sound balanced? xD.

I would suggest to avoid blindly defending every mechanic our class has regardless of whether it's stupidly OP or not because it severely dampens any credibility we may have when faced with people of different classes.


Have you done serious arena on PTR?

I want to discuss about possibilites in this thread and not defend every spec that could possibly become viable (in terms of being playable, not like current Blood that sucks balls but has an I-Win-Button with a 50% chance of success) against other classes. People QQ about everything, even if they haven't even tested it, they only pick the sides that are to their argument's advantage while ignoring the disadvantages. I was just showing that DS has lots of weak spots as well. Will that keep it from being OP or underpowered? I don't know, but you can't know it yet either because Blood does need PvP buffs with the heavily nerfed DRW (it's more like 1/4 of my damage on PTR now).
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#39 Miraped

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 09:37 PM

I'm personally just curious about what you guys think of viability in s6 for dks, and if anyone has any input, what spec do you guys think you'll be leaning toward?
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#40 Rudeface

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Posted 19 March 2009 - 10:00 PM

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I lolled, how can anyone pretend that is balanced? He said, that's with nothing up and pretty average gear. So a player with 25% reduced crit damage from resilience and 5k armor (casterform druids, rogues, mages, priests, warlocks etc) - will take 6k crits from your main nuke, which snares us and heals you for 9k?

Yeah, that sounds balanced....
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DKs make me lol. It's like a hobo winning the lotto, no one knew of him before he got rich and no one likes them.





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