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Warlocks and TR - Dominating


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#461 Levidian

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:25 PM

So what happens against rogues when we fear them, try and get distance on them by running at a 70% speed, having fear break and only being 8 yards away from them?

Fear is good for getting range on people se we can actually start to kite them. Theres more to fear pathing than you think.


Re read the post above the one I quoted (Hint my post)until you get it through your head that fixing fears RNG probably isn't the only thing that needs to happen to warlocks.
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#462 Craton

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:26 PM

Actually Wyvern sting is the most easily countered CC in the entire game, but that's beside the point.


Pointlessly spewing bullshit doesn't suddenly make it true.

---

Also, way to completely gloss over the post above your own.
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#463 Saidar

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:27 PM

Re read the post above the one I quoted (Hint my post)until you get it through your head that fixing fears RNG probably isn't the only thing that needs to happen to warlocks.


Blizzard isn't going to re-design an entire class just because you get bad RNG sometimes.

Warlocks success on PvP is designed around fear, we don't have a choice. They aren't going to revamp the warlock class because some retard who thinks undispelable stings is a good idea wants it to happen.

Fear pathing is here to stay, just stop posting theres nothing left to say.
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#464 Levidian

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:27 PM

i feel like people kind of run around complaining about "rng" with no real concept of how the overall game works, mostly because its kind of the "cool thing" to do and you look "skilled" if you complain about how you're much better than your opponent but they just got lucky crits/procs/whatever.

i've played a warlock and different healers since release, the classes most affected by fear pathing, and i've never really had a problem with it being random. yes, once in a while i fear a druid with no hots at 35% health and it would be an easy kill and he sights me the whole time and comes out of it and can heal to full, and yes sometimes i howl 2 people and they run 80 yards away from each other, but those occurrances are pretty rare honestly. i feel like you basically just want to nerf fear and you're trying to mask it under the guise of "removing rng" (you seem to be complaining about the damage cap as well and acting if these are the same issue) when in reality there are a lot more random elements that go into every single match.

i know when i play paladin and i crit my first 5 holy shocks of the match and don't have to bubble till 20 seconds after their paladin does its hugely game-changing, the same goes for every class in the game. in the end though most of it balances out and i don't really have a problem with the game being too random right now at all, that may be just me.


Do you honestly think it's healthy for the competitive aspect of the game that your fear while not only controlling someone (which is it's job) but also has some sweet RNG changes of completely fucking you or the team you're fighting over based on the random pathing algorithms?
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#465

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:29 PM

raped by levidian hahahahehehehh
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#466 Windwalk

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:32 PM

I think his point is that while fear may be the most visible form of RNG it's not necessarily the one that has the biggest impact on the game, that could be in your head.

I know as a mage if I get 3+ chain fireball procs I'm going to kill something and no one is complaining about that.

Having someone hold position while feared is dumb imo, putting a distance restriction on the ability seems like it would be okay though.
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When I talk to or see successful gamers they come off as intelligent people who are able to develop the ever important “game sense” with relative ease. Aside from muscle memory and the mechanics of playing a video game they seem to just understand what needs to be done to compete and outthink their opponents.


#467 Levidian

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:33 PM

Blizzard isn't going to re-design an entire class just because you get bad RNG sometimes.

Warlocks success on PvP is designed around fear, we don't have a choice. They aren't going to revamp the warlock class because some retard who thinks undispelable stings is a good idea wants it to happen.

Fear pathing is here to stay, just stop posting theres nothing left to say.


Why would they have to redesign the class?

The largest complaint from warlocks about a fear > cower change is that it lessens the abilities use as a distance creator. Right now it is more effective than any other CC in the game in regards to potential distance creation. (run one way - feared target runs another). Despite the obvious offensive advantages a movement free or cower fear would create you feel the defensive loss from the ability would be too great.

If it is too great then something would need to be changed. Despite demonic portal being added to help compensate for the "train the warlock" style strat (which trust me I know all too well as a TBC hunter) you may potentially need something to help compensate for that. Maybe improved health stone would give you a 50/100% chance to remove snares when used.

That's probably a bad example but the point I'm trying to make is just because you lose some of the potential power of FEAR to create distance doesn't mean that weakness can't be off set some by changes to another talent or ability. Maybe imp fel hunter could also give your fel hunter the ability cast a 2-4 second "demonic" freedom or something.
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#468 Levidian

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:37 PM

I think his point is that while fear may be the most visible form of RNG it's not necessarily the one that has the biggest impact on the game, that could be in your head.

I know as a mage if I get 3+ chain fireball procs I'm going to kill something and no one is complaining about that.

Having someone hold position while feared is dumb imo, putting a distance restriction on the ability seems like it would be okay though.


You could leash the ability to where the player randomly navigates in a X yard radius around the leash point (which would be the location they were standing when feared)

but that would really only affect the "sweet both of us got feared 60 yards apart" situation and wouldn't really help the sweet I just got feared behind the boxes on dalaran or around the post on x,y,z map etc.
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#469 Rycho

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:38 PM

Do you honestly think it's healthy for the competitive aspect of the game that your fear while not only controlling someone (which is it's job) but also has some sweet RNG changes of completely fucking you or the team you're fighting over based on the random pathing algorithms?


i think its necessary for some parts of this game to be random, which people don't usually understand because they're too busy trying to look good on the forums because they want to make it clear that if it weren't for luck, they would win every match. part of the "skill" in this game is being able to adapt on-the-fly to changing circumstances that you can't always accurately predict (crits, resists, procs, etc), one of which is where people get feared. some of these are over-the-top (mace stun with no internal cd comes to mind) and some are fine (stuff like nightfall).

i don't think it would be terrible if fear were changed to make it less of a random ability, but i really don't think its as big a deal as you're making it out to be either.
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#470 Smir

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:45 PM

i get duelist, i get gladiator and i get deadly gladiator

works for me, but thanks for your compassion


just for info
lost about 160 rating vs hunter/sham, rogue/sham, and warri pal :)
but what shall i say, i´m just a noob, but thats ok, hey LIFE GOES ON :)


edit:
shit i broke my promise
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#471 Levidian

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:48 PM

i think its necessary for some parts of this game to be random, which people don't usually understand because they're too busy trying to look good on the forums because they want to make it clear that if it weren't for luck, they would win every match. part of the "skill" in this game is being able to adapt on-the-fly to changing circumstances that you can't always accurately predict (crits, resists, procs, etc), one of which is where people get feared. some of these are over-the-top (mace stun with no internal cd comes to mind) and some are fine (stuff like nightfall).

i don't think it would be terrible if fear were changed to make it less of a random ability, but i really don't think its as big a deal as you're making it out to be either.


I totally agree about RNG and reacting to some things and I think you will agree with me that when an abilities RNG impact has too large of an impact that things need changed.

I mean I could easily argue that getting a 2 second stun from time to time 15% on a 6 second CD isn't as RNG game changing as fear pathing and I would definitely have some support when looking at those 2 individual situations side by side.

I guess it really comes down to how much impact the RNG pathing has on the out come of games as to whether or not it needs some changes and I think most posters that are actually thinking about the situation instead of just trying to troll would agree that fear RNG can and does have substantial impacts on some games especially on maps like Dsewers.
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#472 Darzog

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 05:58 PM

I guess it really comes down to how much impact the RNG pathing has on the out come of games as to whether or not it needs some changes and I think most posters that are actually thinking about the situation instead of just trying to troll would agree that fear RNG can and does have substantial impacts on some games especially on maps like Dsewers.


We've already offered solutions. Have the feared person run the way the Warlock was facing when the spell was cast was just one of them.

You sound like a politician. (That's not a compliment.)
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#473 Levidian

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 06:08 PM

Making fear even more powerful than it is right now isn't a solution.

That would only work if you set fear to break when the target hits a wall.
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#474 Alysana

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 06:17 PM

I thought you were just hating the RNG part? It sounds more like you just want an overall nerf of fear cause it's the only thing that counters the hunter class. First you want the RNG part gone, then lower the damage cap a fair deal and then you say the spell is overpowered without the rng itself.
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#475 Levidian

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Posted 23 March 2009 - 06:32 PM

Fear needs the RNG removed. IT definitely doesn't need to be MORE powerful than it is now accomplishing that goal however.

That would be like saying I should be ok with explosive shot doing 20% more damage since TNT was removed. No.
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