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Hpal/Dk vs Hunter/pally- need help please!


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#41 Donkeykonng

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 05:54 AM

So after sifting through all the bullshit i came up with a bit of a new plan and implemented it once today cuz we only got one hunter/pally team

basicly I started on the hunter diseased up, spread bloodboil then when the runes came back up i unloaded on the hunter nocked him down to about 10k fairly easily poped my gargoyle on the hunter and switched to the pally did a pet stun into strangulate combined with a ERW unload on the pally. he got outa the strnagulate with a lucky crit shock crit flash heal but at this point it was feeling pretty shitty about making him bubble, then i interupt a heal im like nice, try to take him out he gets to like 8% and bubbles i go to switch to the hunter and....... hes dead! from my pet and my pally finishing him off with a shock while i was finishing dancing with their pally.

i dont know if this will work always or even twice in a row, apparently the hunter waited till he was at 5% to figure out to feigndeath and my pally finished him off

Me explaining this shows that i actually was playing like a nub and didnt even realise the hunter was so close to dead, im usually very observant, but i guess i got lucky with this one
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#42 Sykoh

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:04 AM

you wont get anywhere tunnel visioning the paladin ofc lol.
like i said, target swaps are extremely nice since both targets are very viable, even a strangulate on the paladin to dps down the hunter will force the bubble or even get a lucky gib.
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#43 Salacious

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 06:33 AM

This is exactly how you beat good hunter teams. If you try to tunnel the paladin you will get shit on.


Lol says the DK with no skill to back himself up. Teams that are 2.3k+ are actually HARDER to play than the 1900 rated teams that you go against, believe it or not.


Anyway, make sure you keep diseases up on the hunter, pally, and pet as well. Gibbing the pet quickly can save some time and ease your gib on the hunter later on. Also, keep track of your freedom and IBF cd's because that's your only way of gibbing a hunter/pally if they are GOOD. Remember that you can death pact when you want to let your pally help dps and cc with you as well.
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#44 Persidios

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 12:38 PM

You seriously need to learn to read.

I've said over and over in this thread that you should start on the hunter and force freedom on the hunter

Your scenario of "sit on hunter, CC/lock out paladin" just doesn't work because no *competent* hunter is going to let you lay into him during that time-quite the opposite-if you've CCd his paladin, yours is probably CCd too, and you're going to be chasing him at 40% speed or entrapped. He won't need freedom because he's got master's call, disengage, pet charge, pin, and deterrence.


Sorry, but your contradicting yourself here.

How will you force freedom if he doesn't need it, as you stated here?

Would that not make your "switch to paladin once freedom is down" tactic, fail?
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#45 Elraen

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 01:02 PM

Sorry, but your contradicting yourself here.

How will you force freedom if he doesn't need it, as you stated here?

Would that not make your "switch to paladin once freedom is down" tactic, fail?


I was talking about different points in the fight. The hunter probably isn't going to burn all of his defensive CDs in the first 30s of a fight against dps/healer. Later on, if/when his healer is CCd, he won't have freedom at that point, but he won't necessarily need it either.

With freedom being available right off the bat, he's not going to burn Master's Call, deterrence, etc. When you switch to the paladin, he's going to want to have freedom for himself, though, to break a HoJ or gnaw. When he does that, though, you've gotta know that the hunter will have MC/disengage, and deterrence at his disposal, so it would be silly to expect a kill (esp since you just made the paladin burn freedom on himself to break one of your CCs).

This is why many people have said that against hunter/paladin, you're not going to indefinitely be sitting on one target or the other. It really comes down to ping ponging back and forth, getting them to burn a cooldown, then switching-then making them burn another one, and switching.
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#46 Persidios

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 01:26 PM

Ok, so forcing the paladin to freedom himself as well as using the hunters defensive cooldown to save him would not open an oppurtunity for a kill on the hunter?

Sorry, but with every post your strat changes, you said you cant force freedom on the hunter but you need to force it on him in order to burst the paladin.

You said you need to switch to the paladin and force him to use freedom on himself along with hunters CD's.

I fail to see how any paladin with freedom up and a hunter to help peel will die especially if he's pillar humping as you suggested.

If you had properly read my strategy in my original post you would have realized the hunter does not have any pet abilites since we use our first rotation of CC to kill it at the very start of the fight.

No pet along with no freedom not to mention Ghoul stun > corpse explode + DT IT + KM IT + gargoyle will be enough to force a kill almost 90% of the time if the paladin does not have a bubble.
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#47 Elraen

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 01:52 PM

Ok, so forcing the paladin to freedom himself as well as using the hunters defensive cooldown to save him would not open an oppurtunity for a kill on the hunter?

Sorry, but with every post your strat changes, you said you cant force freedom on the hunter but you need to force it on him in order to burst the paladin.

You said you need to switch to the paladin and force him to use freedom on himself along with hunters CD's.

I fail to see how any paladin with freedom up and a hunter to help peel will die especially if he's pillar humping as you suggested.

If you had properly read my strategy in my original post you would have realized the hunter does not have any pet abilites since we use our first rotation of CC to kill it at the very start of the fight.

No pet along with no freedom not to mention Ghoul stun > corpse explode + DT IT + KM IT + gargoyle will be enough to force a kill almost 90% of the time if the paladin does not have a bubble.


Really? I've suggested different strats? REALLY? Maybe that's because there are different teams, different players, different specs, different maps, different gear levels, different ways of thinking...etc. I'm not assuming every game will play out the same. I am assuming, though, that you're going to be fighting half-competent hunters who don't just stand there and let you gib them while you get off a few seconds of CC on their paladins.

You're assuming that everything I'm talking about happens in a tiny little 30s window of the fight. It doesn't. Quit assuming that.

As far a the opposing paladin pillar humping-THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT, especially out of position of his hunter.

It boils down to this-switch a lot. Don't just sit on one or the other. You MAY get lucky and score a kill on the hunter when the pally isn't looking-you may gib the pally before he bubbles-you may gib the hunter because he misbound deterrence. Any number of things CAN happen-but what you're repeatedly seeing in this thread is top-notch DKs saying "you're probably going to kill the pally first." That really goes for many pally/dps teams. DKs just happen to be strong against paladins.

What's funnier-I was watching Jigs stream last night, and much of what I, and others, have said is exactly how he beat hunter/paladin multiple times. Start on hunter, spread diseases, switch to pally, LoS when there are frost traps all over the map, catch the pally out of position and punish him. That's really the strat in a nutshell.
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#48 Squishyflap

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 02:02 PM

Not at all. If we ran into more teams of this comp I would be much higher rating. I know it can be confusing to imagine that there are more teams than hunter/pally out there, but there are.

BTW, your strategy is retarded. You're not gonna beat a competent hunter/paly by tunneling the paly. It's a bit ridiculous dont you think so?

We have lost maybe 2/25 games against this comp and my strat is always to do spread damage while sticking the hunter and just wait for the right time to burst someone. The time always comes eventually. It can be a very long game if they are super defensive but if you just tunnel the paly and let the hunter lay into you, thats a loss.


LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
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#49 Bailou

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 02:06 PM

fight of the titans
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#50 Dunsparrow

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 02:32 PM

Lol says the DK with no skill to back himself up. Teams that are 2.3k+ are actually HARDER to play than the 1900 rated teams that you go against, believe it or not.


How would you know?
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#51 Persidios

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 02:32 PM

Really? I've suggested different strats? REALLY? Maybe that's because there are different teams, different players, different specs, different maps, different gear levels, different ways of thinking...etc. I'm not assuming every game will play out the same. I am assuming, though, that you're going to be fighting half-competent hunters who don't just stand there and let you gib them while you get off a few seconds of CC on their paladins.

You're assuming that everything I'm talking about happens in a tiny little 30s window of the fight. It doesn't. Quit assuming that.

As far a the opposing paladin pillar humping-THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT, especially out of position of his hunter.

It boils down to this-switch a lot. Don't just sit on one or the other. You MAY get lucky and score a kill on the hunter when the pally isn't looking-you may gib the pally before he bubbles-you may gib the hunter because he misbound deterrence. Any number of things CAN happen-but what you're repeatedly seeing in this thread is top-notch DKs saying "you're probably going to kill the pally first." That really goes for many pally/dps teams. DKs just happen to be strong against paladins.

What's funnier-I was watching Jigs stream last night, and much of what I, and others, have said is exactly how he beat hunter/paladin multiple times. Start on hunter, spread diseases, switch to pally, LoS when there are frost traps all over the map, catch the pally out of position and punish him. That's really the strat in a nutshell.


You win. I come here to give constructive advice as to how I play the comp and get eaten alive because i've played 1 week of arena as this comp and havnt had the chance to reach 2500+ like the "good players".
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#52 jigs

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 03:37 PM

It boils down to this-switch a lot. Don't just sit on one or the other. You MAY get lucky and score a kill on the hunter when the pally isn't looking-you may gib the pally before he bubbles-you may gib the hunter because he misbound deterrence. Any number of things CAN happen-but what you're repeatedly seeing in this thread is top-notch DKs saying "you're probably going to kill the pally first." That really goes for many pally/dps teams. DKs just happen to be strong against paladins.

What's funnier-I was watching Jigs stream last night, and much of what I, and others, have said is exactly how he beat hunter/paladin multiple times. Start on hunter, spread diseases, switch to pally, LoS when there are frost traps all over the map, catch the pally out of position and punish him. That's really the strat in a nutshell.


hello again sin. I just wanted to quote this part because it is what we have found to work. We switch targets frequently based on who is in the worst position. pet? hunter? pally? Just do your best to keep pressure up. We always try to stay close to some LOS so I can hide if they start a CC chain on my paladin. We stick to hunter and try to interrupt pally to force a bubble or we find a good opening to switch to the pally with procs up, IBF/amz, IT-IT-IT-IT on his face.

Sometimes hunter may die, but most of the time the pally will die first. Knowing when to be offensive and when to be defensive is a very very big part of this fight.

Im pretty good at putting lots of pressure on pallys when I make my switch, but maybe other strats work for other people.
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#53 Dunsparrow

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Posted 17 March 2009 - 03:52 PM

This is all I was trying to infer this entire time, thank you.


Learn the difference between "imply" and "infer."
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#54 Catastros

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Posted 18 March 2009 - 06:40 AM

I sit on hunter until I get freedom from my paladin then I switch to the paladin,Whenever freedom is up switch to the huntard. Also when they set up a cc chain you just go los until its off, Works for me atleast.
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#55 Despicabull

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 07:04 PM

Killing the pet early has always been key for us. Even a taunt after he pulls it back, if it's set to defensive. Pull it los, HoJ, Nuke it down. Takes off a ton of pressure on us. We usually play pretty defensively till paladin opens himself up to be deathgripped into a bad position. Either los of the hunter or a long way away from frost traps. If they get a good trap set up(one where you're just groaning because all you can see is frozen ground) just pick up and move to a different pillar.
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#56 Dunsparrow

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 09:58 PM

Killing the pet is key. Gargoyle it if you have to. Its literally impossible to keep up if you are bursting it heavily every chance you get and once its dead, its dead. That removes Master's Call, Pin, etc. and is the first step in beating this team.
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#57 euronymous

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 10:27 PM

Just to clarify: tenacity pets such as turtle and crab have intervene and roar of sacrifice. Ferocity pets such as raptor and cat don't have intervene or roar of sacrifice, but they do have a self-res ability and a 100% health heal (heart of the phoenix and lick your wounds, respectively).

So ferocity pets you will have to kill twice just to disable master's call, so it probably isn't worth it unless you notice the pet on 10% health or something.

Thought this was worth mentioning because it isn't obvious unless you've played a hunter.
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#58 Dunsparrow

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Posted 20 March 2009 - 10:33 PM

Just to clarify: tenacity pets such as turtle and crab have intervene and roar of sacrifice. Ferocity pets such as raptor and cat don't have intervene or roar of sacrifice, but they do have a self-res ability and a 100% health heal (heart of the phoenix and lick your wounds, respectively).

So ferocity pets you will have to kill twice just to disable master's call, so it probably isn't worth it unless you notice the pet on 10% health or something.

Thought this was worth mentioning because it isn't obvious unless you've played a hunter.


This is good info. All I knew is that Crabs are annoying with Pin and sacrifice and cant be rezzed. I dont think I've seen any high ranked hunters with anything other than crab since Survival came into vogue.
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#59 Cares

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 02:24 PM

The keys to win this fight is Frost Presence and heavy switching. I've noticed that the games against hunter/pala that I've lost is because we tunneled one target too much. Is the hunter and the paladin close? Pestilience->BB->Pet stun (or mindfreeze if you're lucky enough to switch to paladin during a heal) and make him bubble easily. If the switch fails, back to the hunter quickly.
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#60 Chaotica

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Posted 27 March 2009 - 03:37 PM

its even more simple than tha actually, simplify the match, kill the hunters pet , they lose core abilities, then u can either hug them and outlast them or do a proper switch since they lose pin / intervene / bof !!
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