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#41 Lolflay

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:13 PM

hurts doesn't it <3
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[13:49:14] Creed: u have 20min to find a healer, going for a jog
[13:49:53] Creed: nothing like running through the bush being chased by wild animals to get a proper workout
[13:50:01] Creed: you europeans and ur silly gyms


#42 mirag

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:17 PM

Why is everyone talking about abandoning unholy? From what I can tell, they've only buffed Unholy damage in this patch, so it should be as disgusting as ever.

Am I missing something, or is it just one of those bandwagon things? Every DK being blood would be awesome, we'd win every game.


Unholy will rape meele even harder after patch but it will be hard to manage vs kiters with no good snare that doent screw your dmg over compleatly atleast if you doent play with a paladin
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#43 Wardeath

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:24 PM

A one button, snare everything in 30 yards didn't seem overpowered at all? Yeah maybe flat out taking it out is a lot, but having a one button spread dots to everything and another one button snare everything was pretty damn OP. Especially in 5s...

Assuming Unholy pressence in 4 seconds you'll have DoTs on most everybody and all of them snared by 50%...i mean come on guys.
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#44 Shortyx

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:27 PM

Maybe add to one of the deep unholy talents making COI require blood runes or something so i doesn't screw unholy's dmg as much
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glad was much easier to get by class in tbc because the game was so slow paced all you had to do was play your class decently and you'd win.


2500 Disc Priest, his name says it all.

#45 Abdoom

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:31 PM

Endless winter is easier to get for all now and DKs were doing more than fine early on before anyone was using the glyph and running the old unholy blood specs.
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#46 Laen

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:34 PM

Yeah what were they thinking? This is ridiculous! DKs don't need this, they need more burst, more utility, and more survivability. I mean honestly, we only account for 70% of the population over 2k. Clearly Blizzard hates Death Knights.
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#47 Foureleven

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:35 PM

complety wrong decision from blizz...

-utility -skill for the BB removal and giving blood DKs an "auto" slow like infected wounds - fail.
avg. DKs will just train on one target and then there are 10000 QQ threads again why DKs have a 50% slow while DPSing.

won't be enjoyable, that wasn't the kind of "nerf" I expected :(
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#48 Infekt

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:40 PM

Yeah what were they thinking? This is ridiculous! DKs don't need this, they need more burst, more utility, and more survivability. I mean honestly, we only account for 70% of the population over 2k. Clearly Blizzard hates Death Knights.


You aren't getting the point of the thread.
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#49 kashflow

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:42 PM

oh noes :(! shadowfrost nerfs!

seems like blood is still okay though. I hope they can find a real balance point for DKs, cause they are currently insane but I don't feel like they should be worthless either.
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#50 Aqueous

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:42 PM

The "static ground snare" is actually so bad that people deliberate on these very forums as to whether they should even pick it up. Desecration is NOT a good snare effect. It's a good Frost Trap-like effect, sure, but for actually maintaining melee range on a kiter it's pretty dire.

Also, with regards to CoI being Improved Hamstring - yes, it essentially is, if Hamstring also rendered you unable to use MStrike for 5 seconds each time you used it. Don't get me wrong, CoI is a good ability but not as a snare-for-all-times - its cost is too great for that.

DKs needed nerfs and many of the nerfs I saw didn't phase me one bit as they were necessary, well-thought out and would still allow DKs to work smoothly. These are good nerfs.

The problem with this glyph's removal is the fact that there is no viable way keeping a snare up as Unholy without Blood Boil glyph. If it was so unnecessary, why is virtually every Unholy specced DK running with it?

Also, last time I checked they're only reversing the crit bonus damage on GoG, NOT MoM.
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#51 Aresh

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:53 PM

well unholy looks pretty bad atm i think... but frost an blood will be pretty nice

Heart strike snare sounds cool
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#52 Strig

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Posted 12 March 2009 - 11:53 PM

Post your feedback here:
http://forums.worldo...29&postId=15618
8226641&sid=1#0

They are more likely to read feedback in that forum.
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#53 fuuga

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 12:01 AM

They need to make COI better against pallies/priests, but not as rape against shaman and teammates of druids.
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totems alone are more buttons than rogues use you fucking downie

inb4 delete


#54 Ansi

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 12:19 AM

The "static ground snare" is actually so bad that people deliberate on these very forums as to whether they should even pick it up. Desecration is NOT a good snare effect. It's a good Frost Trap-like effect, sure, but for actually maintaining melee range on a kiter it's pretty dire.

Also, with regards to CoI being Improved Hamstring - yes, it essentially is, if Hamstring also rendered you unable to use MStrike for 5 seconds each time you used it. Don't get me wrong, DKs need nerfs and many of the nerfs I saw didn't phase me one bit as they were necessary, well-thought out and would still allow DKs to work smoothly.

The problem with this glyph's removal is the fact that there is no viable way keeping a snare up as Unholy without Blood Boil glyph. If it was so unnecessary, why is virtually every Unholy specced DK running with it?

Also, last time I checked they're only reversing the crit bonus damage on GoG, NOT MoM.


Definitely some valid points. I think a simple change to coi, such as 30% dispel resistance through glyph or talents, would be sufficient. I don't think this build is the final one on the issue though.

Regarding MoM

Official Blizzard Quote:

"Might of Mograine now increases the critical strike damage damage bonus of your Blood Boil, Blood Strike, Death Strike, and Heart Strike abilities by 15/30/45%."

They're definitely reversing it, but they removed Obliterate from it.
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#55 mirag

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 12:20 AM

What i hope is that they make that heartstrike glypth work on bloodstrikes to like the bloodstrike glypth did/does.

It would obviouslynot be as good as than glypth but i think it would be fine.

DKs need a decent snare but nvm that lets buff there already very good dmg instead!!!
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#56

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 12:23 AM

I really don't understand wth blizzard is aiming at, reverting our burst damage nerfs while removing our only reliable snare versus paladins/priests.... huh ? do they really want us to keep running after a target for a whole game, and then kill it in just a few globals once we catch it ? That's pretty dumb.
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#57 Samdillandul

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 12:28 AM

What i hope is that they make that heartstrike glypth work on bloodstrikes to like the bloodstrike glypth did/does.


That's a pretty cool idea imo. Make the HS glyph as BS glyph is atm. Then all 3 speccs would have somewhat a "reliable" snare. Not a ranged snare but its better then nothing.
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Previously known as Samdillandul

#58 mirag

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 12:29 AM

I really don't understand wth blizzard is aiming at, reverting our burst damage nerfs while removing our only reliable snare versus paladins/priests.... huh ? do they really want us to keep running after a target for a whole game, and then kill it in just a few globals once we catch it ? That's pretty dumb.


Exactly my thoughts.
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#59 Aqueous

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 12:44 AM

Definitely some valid points. I think a simple change to coi, such as 30% dispel resistance through glyph or talents, would be sufficient. I don't think this build is the final one on the issue though.

Regarding MoM

Official Blizzard Quote:

"Might of Mograine now increases the critical strike damage damage bonus of your Blood Boil, Blood Strike, Death Strike, and Heart Strike abilities by 15/30/45%."

They're definitely reversing it, but they removed Obliterate from it.


Ahh kk, didn't see that change ;).

With regards CoI though, the problem isn't only it being dispelled but the fact it uses a Frost Rune. Each time you use CoI, you lose a Scourge Strike. If you need to use it 2 times in quick succession, there go ALL of your Scourge Strikes for that rune rotation. What Glyph of BB gave Unholy was a snare using a Blood Rune, thus actually allowing us to use our main damage strike whilst snaring. Removing that simply means I'll be castrated with regards my controlled damage every time I need to snare something.

The only way to fix that is to either keep the BB glyph as it is and allow both BB and HStrike to have the same effect (I can't see why not) or to change Desecration so that the snare effect is applied to the target and the 5% damage effect is from the desecrated ground. It would suck to lose the Frost-Trap for pillar kiting but would at least give us a repeatable and reliable snare without being completely at odds with SStrike.

As for the changes to MoM: Yeah they're definitely gearing Death Strike towards Blood now but I think it's going to be a bit ridiculous. The sheer amount of self-healing from Death Strike is crazy enough as is, but forming it into a main nuke ability you use in regular DPS rotations instead of a choice to self-heal is going to see DKs on par with healers in "Healing Done" after arena games lol.

Normally keeping yourself topped is a choice vs. playing offensively but if the DStrike self-healing remains the same it'll just be a case of zerg as hard as you can heal yourself for absurd amounts.

Post your feedback here:
http://forums.worldo...29&postId=15618
8226641&sid=1#0

They are more likely to read feedback in that forum.


Not everyone here is playing on the US so I'd suggest maybe also putting a link in that thread to this very thread.
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#60 Magdain

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Posted 13 March 2009 - 12:47 AM

I'm really not looking forward to playing a dk after this. Probably have to end up going the even more mindless Blood spec, depending how they finish DRW.

Also don't agree that Blood Boil was at all OP.. playing from multiple classes point of views. Death knights were OP as fuck in every bracket, but this isn't the correct way to fix it. Just about every other class has a more reliable slow. The only reason dks had no trouble staying on a target was because of two different slows, to be used in different situations. I expect that decent pallys are going to be 100% impossible to kill after this change.


A 30 yard range physical aoe snare that doesn't effect your DPS cycle is just a little bit out of line. Just a little.

Removing the glyph completely was too harsh though.
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