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PMR dominance on ESL. zero shamans.


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#41 Innate

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:24 PM

Alright Giantz,

Thread locked.

Edit: I tried.
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#42 Kubuss

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:24 PM

Blind and poly need to share a DR regaurdless of it making shamans better


No, they don't.
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#43 Rice

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:30 PM

No, they don't.


...Yes, they do.
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#44 rorix12321

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:33 PM

I like how its all the mages saying it shouldnt.
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#45 Bigwes46

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:42 PM

The druid was in complexity, I believe they lost every single series (0-5). In a post-match interview, the druid stated that they understandably lost for a lot of different reasons but primarily that they never had to face any good RMPs on their live server BGs. I think he said they actually do well against RMPs, but at the tournament level (especially against the Koreans), their opponents are so flawlessly coordinated and waste no globals that it's like fighting a completely different comp.

As for shaman viability in arenas, I don't think we can look at EG's kollektiv and base a lot of possible changes on his performance alone. Like someone said, he played alright but made some pretty clear mistakes. In EG vs SK-Korea, he was counterspelled during an important hex. Later he was polymorphed (not POM-poly'd) behind a pillar where it couldn't be dispelled by the felhunter. Lastly he jumped/fell off the BEM bridge while both teammates were up top. Some people say that the jump/fall was intentional but it clearly was NOT intentional (he started running towards the ramp to get back up to the bridge, instead of waiting near a pillar to LOS the mage while healing his teammates when they jumped down).

Those are the sort of thing that even non-sponsored teams will avoid. Granted kollektiv was playing without any mods at the tournament (and if you watch his old vids, he is very mod-dependent) and he was facing really good opponents, he still made some simple mistakes and I don't think class balance was the driving factor behind his losses.


One of the Korean mages said he was the best shaman hes ever played against in one of the pregame interviews, so obviously he played well. I'm pretty sure nobody in the tournament went without mistakes, considering everyone lost at some point.
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#46 Zestola

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:56 PM

why are we avoiding the true topic of this discussion...?. Nerf Koreans.


^this. no matter what there was no stopping the koreans. play at a whole different level.
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#47 xergul

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 10:27 PM

One of the Korean mages said he was the best shaman hes ever played against in one of the pregame interviews, so obviously he played well. I'm pretty sure nobody in the tournament went without mistakes, considering everyone lost at some point.


Yeah I have no doubt kollektiv is easily one of the best shamans to play the game. I was cheering for his team pretty hard and was disappointed they got knocked out, but they put up a good 2-3 against SK-Asia so that's good.
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#48 Ridzik

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 10:36 PM

so again, what (shaman) changes are needed for us to compete better?

just went through the US tournament realm top 10: two shamans up there in a sea of Paladin/DK/Hunter, not one PMR/RMP callitwhatyouwant.
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#49 fuuga

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 11:08 PM

The pally nerfs will be plenty I'm sure.
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totems alone are more buttons than rogues use you fucking downie

inb4 delete


#50 Darklordxenu

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 08:15 AM

they should just make blind a poison again.


This.
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#51 Kitore

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 09:58 AM

When a really good DK/paladin duo manages to find themselves on a pro team, hopefully things will change for WoW's RMP disease.
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#52 Ridzik

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:05 PM

The pally nerfs will be plenty I'm sure.


Silence/interrupt immunity on demand (tier 3 talent) :rolleyes:

Why not make totems immune to damage other than this new throw warriors get?!
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#53 Demetrious

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:17 PM

I like how its all the mages saying it shouldnt.


I haven't even logged onto my mage in 3 weeks. Haven't ran any arena with him in at least 6. It doesn't take a Mage to tell you that blind and poly sharing DR, in addition to demolishing one of only two viable 2v2 Mage comps, would devastate the only good 3v3 Mage comp.

I have a little Shaman experience - played :shaman::warrior: to glad range in s4 - and for the class to have come relatively far and to see people still whining incessantly is pretty disgusting. Instead of bitching and moaning about the only good mage comp out there, focus on what Shaman need - a nerf on totem stomping, a buff to mana tide totem or having it unlinked, less gyrating survivability/efficiency when swapping shields, etc.
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#54 WACOO

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:18 PM

rshamans > rdruids, why all the complaining?
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#55 Ridzik

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:38 PM

I have a little Shaman experience - played :shaman::warrior: to glad range in s4 - and for the class to have come relatively far and to see people still whining incessantly is pretty disgusting.


It is pretty disgusting to die to RMx without any chance to survive the onslaught while everybody else is watching you die while they are sap'ed, poly'd, blinded or feared with tremor down. (attention exxageration!)

blind and poly on the same DR wouldn't do PMR any harm other than shortening their window of opportunity from OP to average.
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#56 emerald

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:47 PM

sap and blind on the same dr? really?
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#57 Demetrious

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:49 PM

If that's the 3v3 comp that you're running, I'm not surprised that you're pissed off by PMR. If you were running double healer/hunter or playing with a ret pally for freedom+cleanse, or a lock + rogue, or lock+hunter, you wouldn't feel the same way.

That's what happens if your melee class isn't a rogue and you don't have dispel magic/cleanse against a mage team. It's not that PMR specifically has some amazing advantage against you, it's the fact that any Mage team is going to bend you over a table - and PMR is the only Mage team worth a shit.
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#58 Shouri

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:51 PM

Shamans are fine
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#59 Kazmir21

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:52 PM

this comp keeps on winning every tourney out there, their competition from tbc has vanished (druid teams), hundreds of teams have claimed #1 in their realmpool all over the world with this comp and still, they receive nothing but buffs.

now many more reasons do we need until we may start talking about 'nerfing' this comp or buffing everybody else against it?


You do realize WLD won most the tournaments last year right?
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#60 Ridzik

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Posted 10 March 2009 - 03:08 PM

RMx has the advantage over any healer that can barely heal himself while focused, sits in every nova until it breaks from its own, can die in a cheapshot + imp silence with no means whatsoever to mitigate damage in the process and has no way out other than trinket + nitro + pray that cripple doesn't land before you're around the corner (this fits shamans only!)

I've been playing all the other healers on TR for the past two weeks now and none is so hardcountered by good(!) RMx than shaman's are. All I'm advocating for is a chance to win sometimes, a buff that allows strategies that are not based on them screwing something up at some point and us jumping into the breach exploiting their mistakes.

suggestions:
Poly and Blind on the same DR
Astral Shift in tier 1/2 enh
Imp Firenova baseline
Shields undispellable
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