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PMR dominance on ESL. zero shamans.


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#21 Grombringal

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:37 PM

Nerfing a comp cause some koreans played it perfect is plain stupid.


^ This. And again, I'm sure Kollektiv's team would've claim victory if the Warlock was Affli specced (no instant HoL + no dispell protection on cc = lol gg)
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#22 Quantity

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:41 PM

Regardless of how much you nerf the individual classes, RMP (not fucking PMR) truly is the most synergetic comp in the history of Warcraft. It really is perfectly balanced between offense, defense, and control. You just have to live with it. It's the 'golden standard' of 3v3 teams, from s1 to now when you are playing a 3's comp one of your main concerns is "How does this comp. do against RMP?".

With that being said, I do think that there needs to be more of a variety of comps played at tournament level. As someone mentioned before, Druid teams did give RMP a serious run for their money (often times counter-comping) before Druids got nerfed so hard. If you look at the logistics, Druids were the only healer designed to beat RMP because they were immune to poly and cs (mage control), and could heal on the run to avoid fear/mana burn (priest control).
However now all you have to do is blind the druid to force a trinket, and get a cs-->ks on him and he's dead. I feel like Rogue control alone should not win matches, and thus this is a major flaw of RMP at the moment is the relatively weak position Druids are in.

I still think a well played Hunter-DK/Warlock/Druid team can beat RMP.
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#23 Alvaress

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 07:01 PM

why are we avoiding the true topic of this discussion...?. Nerf Koreans.


yeah, wtf? the korean passive racial gives like 100% more skill in gaming.
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#24 Guest_Alphatier_*

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 07:04 PM

I think Azael was destro in those matches because otherwise he would have been pooped on. 60% magic damage reduce is real serious business and as far as I can remember he was never focussed
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#25 Innate

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 07:11 PM

I don't think theres anything particularly wrong with the shaman class, though I will say overall offline tourneys will always be worse for shamans than other healers. There simply is less room for error since all your anti damage, and anti-CC moves are proactive, not reactive. If you fail to ground/shock/LoS an incoming sheep, or frostbolt, it can mean the end of the game just based on one error, compared to a priest or paladin that will just be a split second late on dispelling.

Shamans are also probably the most dependant healer on focus bars, which while having been added into the default UI, at least for me wouldn't really be in an ideal position/setup.

And yea, I think if there had been top teams of currently popular setups, like double healer hunter at that tourney, they would have shit on the RMP. Unfortunately, none of those teams qualified, because the qualifiers took place on an entirely different set of rules (level 70, patch 2.4/3.0 etc.), so RMP which "just happens" to still be good, had more than half of the teams playing as the setup.
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#26 fuuga

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 07:36 PM

korean PMR is made to dominate healers. PoM poly followed by blind is a 100% unpreventable 10sec cc, only dispellable by BoP. a priest still has options when faced with that (PS, shields uneffected by MS and even sw:d the blind). a shaman is even more dominated by that. same DR would adress this.

another point is our earthshield, the mechanic and synergies with our other heals are simply not made to deal with quick switches and dispelspam.


Felhunter dispel or a pally can both solve your sheep->blind problem. Classes have weaknesses that need to be adressed by your comp. Shaman are generally going to be weaker to RM+whatever. Playing 10 games of 2v2 should be enough to figure that out.

Add to that the fact that only 1 team even ran a shaman as their main comp, and that they went 3-2 with a korean RMP(and second place team). I think shaman will be fine. I'd really like to see Hamchook's team against some of the PMRs since it seems like it has some good tools to deal with it.
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totems alone are more buttons than rogues use you fucking downie

inb4 delete


#27 nawty

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 07:44 PM

its not exacly a secret that shamans healing output just isnt enough for 3v3, save some 100% cheesy 2x cc combos

check innate's combo for example, hunter / warlock / shm

no news there, move along
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#28 harlequinkopeck

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 07:51 PM

its not exacly a secret that shamans healing output just isnt enough for 3v3, save some 100% cheesy 2x cc combos

no news there, move along


It's not?
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#29 Zanny

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 07:57 PM

My shaman on the tourney realm can put out 6k LHWs following a 3k riptide with ES + EL hots for around 2k hps through hots, 1 sec LHW is killer, and you have CC.

Shaman healers are fine in arenas minus the fact mana tide blows ass.

The reason RMP was so popular at ESL was because all these teams were signed up back in october or earlier of 08, before they even launched wotlk. The companies that sponsor them dont drop them until they fail bad at tourney level, and alot did.

PMR is just the only comp that hasnt been completely shit on as badly as every other BC comp in wrath. That, and if serennia didnt play with complete tools the raw overpowered damage of dk / hunt / pally could have won the tourney if Realz knew wtf CC was. 1 wyvern on the priest after 1 minute of game time and the rogue would have dropped like a rock.
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#30 Demetrious

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 07:58 PM

^ This. And again, I'm sure Kollektiv's team would've claim victory if the Warlock was Affli specced (no instant HoL + no dispell protection on cc = lol gg)


No Nether Protection = lock getting raped?
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#31 Baneman

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 07:58 PM

there were virtually no shaman comps at the tourney because all the teams qualified before wotlk (i think). if a team like hosebeast's went, i'm sure they'd do pretty well.
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#32 Sykeasaurus

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:04 PM

Get the fuck off PMR.
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#33 Innate

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:09 PM

haha i love how an effective combo is a CHEESE COMBO

by that logic RMP is a CHEESE COMBO because the priest relies on 2 CC heavy classes. honestly the only healer that doesn't right now is a paladin... druids do too, its just even with 2 CC classes they suck so bad its hard to get anywhere
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#34 Kubuss

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:17 PM

korean PMR is made to dominate healers. PoM poly followed by blind is a 100% unpreventable 10sec cc, only dispellable by BoP. a priest still has options when faced with that (PS, shields uneffected by MS and even sw:d the blind). a shaman is even more dominated by that. same DR would adress this.

another point is our earthshield, the mechanic and synergies with our other heals are simply not made to deal with quick switches and dispelspam.


Riptide, earth shield, NS healing wave even? what the fuck are you talking about.

EDIT: JESUS, YEAH ROFL SWD THE BLIND IS A VALID OPTION TO DENY THE POM POLY INTO BLIND ROFL. Purge the POM? Ground the poly? VALID MAN.
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#35 Legendara

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:17 PM

My shaman on the tourney realm can put out 6k LHWs following a 3k riptide with ES + EL hots for around 2k hps through hots, 1 sec LHW is killer, and you have CC.


6k LHW? lol? I don't think I get that even in full PvE gear...that's how much it should *crit* for.
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#36 Innate

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:19 PM

6k LHW? lol? I don't even think I get that even in full PvE gear...that's how much it should *crit* for.


that guy is pretty much a notorious troll... hes like the wow forums personified. i've learned to just skim over his posts, you'll feel better if you do too!
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#37 Rudeface

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:21 PM

there were virtually no shaman comps at the tourney because all the teams qualified before wotlk (i think). if a team like hosebeast's went, i'm sure they'd do pretty well.


This. All the teams who qualified to participate on the PTR were made one expansion ago, they got sponsorship from doing well on the tournament realm afaik.

For instance, the hunter in serennias team was pretty awful. Blizzards official tournamentrealm will show us what compos are strong in WOTLK, so look no further.
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#38 Marinara

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:22 PM

Blind and poly on same dr would have what to do with shamans in tourneys?

Blind and poly need to share a DR regaurdless of it making shamans better
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#39 Pirated

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:22 PM

My shaman on the tourney realm can put out 6k LHWs following a 3k riptide with ES + EL hots for around 2k hps through hots, 1 sec LHW is killer, and you have CC.

BRUTALLY EFFECTIVE HEALS


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Posted 09 March 2009 - 08:23 PM

lock this thread
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