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PMR dominance on ESL. zero shamans.


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#1 Ridzik

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:35 PM

PMR needs to take a hit almost certainly, I am advocating blind and poly on the same DR.

what else need to change to make shaman's fit into these tourneys?
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#2 fuuga

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:38 PM

Only team running with a shaman actually did pretty well against korean pmr. EG vs COM and they went 2-3. 5th game was kind of lol, and does show shaman weaknesses pretty clearly though. Though maybe if they had an aff lock instead of destro it would have gone better.
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totems alone are more buttons than rogues use you fucking downie

inb4 delete


#3 Alvaress

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:40 PM

The reason why RMP is dominating is because it has been a strong comp in both TBC and Wrath, meaning that the teams running RMP are more familiar with the set up, resulting in more experience at high rating.

Holy palas and shamans are now getting a better shot at competing at ESL level, but they still need to get used to playing their comps which they are probably not as confident with as RMPs are.
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#4 Ridzik

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:43 PM

how does playing shaman perfectly prevent the occasional unpreventable blow-up that results from one of our team getting sap'ed (into a fear into a poly into a blind.. you know the possible chains)?

(almost) every PMR cc off the same DR needs needs to go soooooo badly.
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#5 harlequinkopeck

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:44 PM

Blind and poly on same dr would have what to do with shamans in tourneys?
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#6 Thricton

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:44 PM

So you want to butcher a comp so your comp can do better?
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#7 jelqonyoface

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:46 PM

they should just make blind a poison again.
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#8 Demetrious

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:46 PM

Blind and Poly sharing DR would be unfathomably stupid. The best team at ESL won the tourney - those guys have thousands upon thousands of games played together, and they were flawlessly coordinated.

EDIT: Didn't some rog/lock/sham team go 2-3 with HON?
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#9 harlequinkopeck

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:47 PM

They should increase cooldown and add drs to shocks, and take out grounding totem, you know, so Druids can cc to improve viability in these tournaments.

Lol, at least the shaman did relatively well, unlike the 1 Druid
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#10 Gladcas

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:48 PM

what else need to change to make shaman's fit into these tourneys?


Have multiple good shamans actually show up to play at tourneys...
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#11 Alvaress

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:49 PM

they should just make blind a poison again.


It can sometimes take me a while to understand a joke, you are joking right?
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#12 Ridzik

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:55 PM

Blind and poly on same dr would have what to do with shamans in tourneys?


korean PMR is made to dominate healers. PoM poly followed by blind is a 100% unpreventable 10sec cc, only dispellable by BoP. a priest still has options when faced with that (PS, shields uneffected by MS and even sw:d the blind). a shaman is even more dominated by that. same DR would adress this.

another point is our earthshield, the mechanic and synergies with our other heals are simply not made to deal with quick switches and dispelspam.
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#13 Alvaress

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 05:55 PM

Lol, at least the shaman did relatively well, unlike the 1 Druid


How did the 1 druid do?
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#14 xergul

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:04 PM

The druid was in complexity, I believe they lost every single series (0-5). In a post-match interview, the druid stated that they understandably lost for a lot of different reasons but primarily that they never had to face any good RMPs on their live server BGs. I think he said they actually do well against RMPs, but at the tournament level (especially against the Koreans), their opponents are so flawlessly coordinated and waste no globals that it's like fighting a completely different comp.

As for shaman viability in arenas, I don't think we can look at EG's kollektiv and base a lot of possible changes on his performance alone. Like someone said, he played alright but made some pretty clear mistakes. In EG vs SK-Korea, he was counterspelled during an important hex. Later he was polymorphed (not POM-poly'd) behind a pillar where it couldn't be dispelled by the felhunter. Lastly he jumped/fell off the BEM bridge while both teammates were up top. Some people say that the jump/fall was intentional but it clearly was NOT intentional (he started running towards the ramp to get back up to the bridge, instead of waiting near a pillar to LOS the mage while healing his teammates when they jumped down).

Those are the sort of thing that even non-sponsored teams will avoid. Granted kollektiv was playing without any mods at the tournament (and if you watch his old vids, he is very mod-dependent) and he was facing really good opponents, he still made some simple mistakes and I don't think class balance was the driving factor behind his losses.
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#15 harlequinkopeck

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:06 PM

Lost every match (I think), forced to play a priest against dk teams cause lolplaguestrike

Druids are just as susceptible to that pmr ownage minus sheep on them, but they could just blind Druid get him to trinket and kill him (which they did)

Doesn't mean you nerf a teams synergy because it has the potential to beat yours.
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#16 Grombringal

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:08 PM

How did the 1 druid do?


There were no Druid
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#17 Ridzik

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:10 PM

So you want to butcher a comp so your comp can do better?


this comp keeps on winning every tourney out there, their competition from tbc has vanished (druid teams), hundreds of teams have claimed #1 in their realmpool all over the world with this comp and still, they receive nothing but buffs.

now many more reasons do we need until we may start talking about 'nerfing' this comp or buffing everybody else against it?
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#18 panico

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:26 PM

The koreans played absolutely flawlessly. Kolectiv has his own screw ups. When a comp plays thousands of games together and execute kills and strategy's with zero margin of error, they deserve the win.

Mutilate Rogues and Arcane mages were decently nerfed already, and it was a preety big change. Priests remain the only class that cannot dispell poisons atm, and yet the make up for it with their offensive capability.

Nerfing a comp cause some koreans played it perfect is plain stupid.
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#19 ahoff

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:35 PM

why are we avoiding the true topic of this discussion...?. Nerf Koreans.
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#20 Mizzle

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 06:37 PM

korean PMR is made to dominate healers. PoM poly followed by blind is a 100% unpreventable 10sec cc, only dispellable by BoP


Actually, it can be prevented seeing as Presence of Mind can be dispelled / purged before the poly is casted. 100% unpreventable? No.
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