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Over nerfing maim?


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#141 Rakeesh

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 08:26 AM

I hope for the sake of god you are just trolling and not serious...

Every single Maim with +50% energy left was a kill oppurtunity if you didnt have a big defensive cooldown, or ur parter had a stun,coil,fear or similiar rdy. it was the improved version of kidney shot.


After reading this a second time, it is pretty clear you don't know feral druids.

After a maim you'd have at most 80 energy available. This is only after allowing your energy bar to fill up to full AFTER you've gotten your combo points, which presumably leaves you at zero energy, which means you have to wait 10 seconds to get a full energy bar. Whats likely to happen during these 10 seconds? Your target gets a nice flash heal back to being at 100% health.

Now, with that 80 energy after the maim, that will only get you one shred, two at most after the gcd is over from the first, three only if omen of clarity procs.

In order for that to be a kill, all 3 would have to crit. What are the odds of getting 3 crits in a row with an OOC proc on top of that? Keep in mind that after resilience you are looking at maybe a 33% chance to crit, and that is being very optimistic. Odds are that only one of those will crit, and that omen of clarity will not proc. So how is this even anywhere close to being "Every single Maim with +50% energy?"

Furthermore there is no way this would be a kill on anything wearing mail or better with say 21k hp. At most you'd do maybe 18k damage to them, and this is assuming that you have the best possible luck, and then on top of that you'd be completely out of energy having to wait at least another 4 seconds to be able to do ANY special abilities after that. This especially holds true given the glyph of shred nerf.

Besides that, maim will have broken from damage after the second shred.

So now that begs the comment:

I hope for the sake of god you are just trolling and not serious...
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#142 Salladhar

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 11:32 AM

Now, with that 80 energy after the maim, that will only get you one shred, two at most after the gcd is over from the first, three only if omen of clarity procs.


Talented Tiger's Fury gives how much energy?
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I can honestly do nothing but laugh at you if you think that mages are super strong on the highest level of play.


#143 Ifix

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 12:05 PM

Talented Tiger's Fury gives how much energy?


Tiger's fury also has a cooldown,so it's far from every maim is a kill opportunity.

point still stands,it's rare to get over one critted shred in a maim.
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#144 Ifix

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 12:08 PM

So I read through this entire thread and most of it was extremely funny, some stupid, and a tad was informational.

But it does look like most of you agree that feral nerfs were needed. Now, how they should go about that, I don't know...but what I do know is I've seen multiple suggestions about giving you guys an interrupt, which violates what you said previously about copying and pasting moves from other classes. Blizz has made it clear that "raw dmg should be an option to take down a healer". In my opinion, that's what I've seen given to feral druids. But you do see the skilled ones abusing their CCs also, along with their amazing survivability. I'm sure that after 3.1 you guys will just fine.

And please don't make arguments about how you can't be in the top end arena because of your spec. How many prot pallies/prot wars do you see up there? Or destruction warlocks, combat rogues, enhancement shams, shadow priests...I mean I could go on. I'm a big fan of seperating pvp and pve, you shouldn't just be able to rock whatever spec you want and expect to be a gladiator...there should be things you give up to be at the top.

s3/s4 was resto druid heaven, you didn't see many ferals up there at all right? I honestly believe that there's many druids who still haven't felt out feral enough because they're so used to being resto.

Anyways, I'm drifting, I think you'll still see the "skilled" druids up there just fine, while the ones that relied on things making them op will start to fall off the ladder. Like it should be.


You cannot compare prot warrs/paladins with feral,feral has both a dps and a tank spec specialized,THERE IS AN ARENA SET FOR FERAL.
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#145 Rakeesh

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 09:10 PM

Talented Tiger's Fury gives how much energy?


60, a talented shred costs 42 energy. So ya, you'd get one more shred. Big deal, you still won't come close. This still doesn't come close to making every +50 energy maim a kill chance.
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#146 Erch

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 11:18 PM

Rakeesh is also conveniently forgetting rolling bleed dots you'll have on the person but his point still stands: with maim as your only interrupt and the maximum damage going into a shaman or paladin, they won't die before they can get off another quick heal.

It's cooldowns vs cooldowns and if we come out on top of that fight AND we crit and proc OoC, then we'll drop them.




And please don't make arguments about how you can't be in the top end arena because of your spec. How many prot pallies/prot wars do you see up there? Or destruction warlocks, combat rogues, enhancement shams, shadow priests...I mean I could go on. I'm a big fan of seperating pvp and pve, you shouldn't just be able to rock whatever spec you want and expect to be a gladiator...there should be things you give up to be at the top.

s3/s4 was resto druid heaven, you didn't see many ferals up there at all right? I honestly believe that there's many druids who still haven't felt out feral enough because they're so used to being resto.


Now as for you: Next time I see somebody try to argue that we always have the option of respeccing, I'm going to kick their teeth in. A feral druid is not a resto druid, not by a long shot. There's no synergy, we share about 3 common abilites regularly used by both specs. The talent point ferals take in the resto tree are specifically feral talents and are only there just so blizz has the piece of mind to say we're not all speccing 0/71/0. We share no gear, comps, or strategies.

Going from feral to resto IS rerolling. You're just saving yourself the trouble of relevelling.

You probably missed the memo, but ferals are pretty much treated as their own class these days. Hell, "cat druids" and "bear druids" are even splitting into factions now. You aren't switching flavors when you go to the druid trainer, you're dumping your frozen yogurt for a pickle... on a stick... or a better analogy.
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Feral makes every comp better.

#147 Rakeesh

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Posted 06 March 2009 - 11:31 PM

It's cooldowns vs cooldowns and if we come out on top of that fight AND we crit and proc OoC, then we'll drop them.


The reality is you can't expect to kill somebody within a single pounce/maim duration like ghostcrawler says you can. Priest maybe, or maybe a pve geared player like a rogue trying to put out maximum burst. But the same thing can be said of basically any pve geared player who is getting plastered by pretty much any burst while their healer is under some kind of cc. By somebody trying to gear out like that, that is the risk they chose to take, and if they get killed within a single stunlock duration because of that, they should have geared differently.

And as for priests, why break the feral spec to fix priests? Feral druids aren't their only problem, far from it in fact.

Going from feral to resto IS rerolling. You're just saving yourself the trouble of relevelling.


This. Furthermore, if we want to play as melee in pvp on our main raiding toon, then why should we have to reroll rogue?
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#148 Datah

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 01:59 AM

I'd like to know what priests exactly die inside pounce->maim (not that it's impossible to burst a priest, of course).

Paladins are just sort of sad for ferals 1v1.
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#149 Crew

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 03:22 AM

I'd like to know what priests exactly die inside pounce->maim (not that it's impossible to burst a priest, of course).


The bad ones or the ones with no resil.

It's almost impossible to burst down a good priest even with berserk up - especially with a partner peeling you off.
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lolwut

#150 Rakeesh

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Posted 07 March 2009 - 09:01 AM

The bad ones or the ones with no resil.

It's almost impossible to burst down a good priest even with berserk up - especially with a partner peeling you off.


True, but nonetheless this is their reasoning for nerfing maim.
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#151 Ragingsteer

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Posted 09 March 2009 - 09:47 PM

This whole thing of it going from incap to stun just makes me wonder if blizzard wants druids to all reroll Death knights.


I think that is what you meant to say.
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wtb D3




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