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Is feral too powerful?


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#41 Brujeria

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 04:20 AM

if anything, I'd like to see ret pal/enhance sham mana put on the level of feral druids.

sad to see so many druids hating on their own class as well =(
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#42 Crew

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 04:59 AM

it wasn't -.-

i said it SHOULDNT be viable in 2s, not that it ISNT, the whole point of my argument was that none ms classes are doing VERY well in 2s atm...

edit: which is bad for the game in reasons posted above ;O


So only rogues, hunters and warriors should be viable with healers?

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh




no
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#43 Miirkat

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 05:13 AM

Okay well this will probably look like a wall of text but at least I'd like people to stop throwing out random statements and show some factual evidence of stuff happening.

Really what I'm getting out of this thread is not so much FERALS ARE OP THEY NEED A NERF but rather damage in general is stupid, resilience doesn't do what it needs to, mana is an issue, and people can face-roll classes to win.

I really wish people would stop pointing fingers at some classes and really evaluate the overall common ground that each class seems to be OP in. Sure, Ferals could probably use a slap or two, but I'd like to see that happen AFTER we've evaluated the OVERALL issues as a whole.

Now that I've got that off my chest...

i said it SHOULDNT be viable in 2s, not that it ISNT, the whole point of my argument was that none ms classes are doing VERY well in 2s atm...

Warrior - Kay, not doing so well as many DK aspects were built off warriors and/or personally I feel that these should have been given to warriors in the first place, along with other issues.

Rogues - I don't see a problem here.

Hunters - I don't see a problem here.

im 2400 and from a mage pov feral druids are ridiculous, one of their gouge stuns i cant block or trinket is auto death, their burrst is insane, and you CANNOT target them, or they take no damage, feral needs specific pvp and tanking talents, not to be uber at both

what if warriors had prot surv. and fury dps all at the click of the button they can swap between?

Sure, Ferals disrupt your main form of "defense" against melee which is shifting out of slows/roots.

Maim is an interesting subject right now on a completely different level. I'm open ears for suggestions on changing Maim, however, you have to realize that this is really the only thing going for us. The "stun" component in many aspects is overpowered in examples you've shown, on top of that it doesn't share DRs with a majority of stuns. If we were to get an interrupt separate from Maim (that worked 100% like Kick) and had Maim turned into a stun, I guess that would be fair right? But then where's the difference between Ferals and Rogues?

Personally I feel PVE DKs and Ret paladins offer much more burst than Ferals. Even if you don't agree with my statement, then you can at least agree that our burst is not any different than the two, so you can't single out Ferals like we're the only "insane burst" class in the game.

I don't recall ferals having any kind of SPELL mitigation while in bear aside from speccing into Protector of the Pack, which only has a small following currently.

Survivability is definitely a topic that should be looked at, however. How many times have you played against a druid with 3/3 Protector of the Pack though? An obvious tanking talent that some ferals decide to pick up for PvP. Having specific talents for tanking or dps really is difficult, especially considering Blizz has to fill 2 roles of Ferals into a single tree.

and no feral druids do not oom, i've had 30+min games vs feral/paladin and when we killed the druid he had 95% mana.. and he was chain shifting snares and cc spamming.

Depending on the Druid's spec, chain shifting could mean nothing, or could work a lot of his mana. I don't see a reason for a Feral paired with a Paladin to have to be CC spamming at the rate of which a Feral with, say, a priest or resto druid would have to. In the case of later, and which I play, I do go OOM fairly quickly if I'm demanded to protect my Priest, even with shape shifting cost reduction talents.

Now say down the road when I don't have to protect the priest like I'm holding a little kid's hand across the street, mana may be an issue to be looked at. Personally I don't see why you should limit the number of shape shifting for our class - it's really the BASIS of our class.
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#44 Stefz

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 08:24 AM

With 700 resilience I can almost live through a full CS/KS from a rogue in a similar amount of pvp gear. I have to trinket the pounce from a feral to live unless I'm doing 2s in which case I have my druid full hot me and crank regrowths before I open on the healer in feral/healer comps. Also when we fight feral/healer the feral routinely does 2-4 times as much damage as I do. But thats ok because I have a (dispellable) ms effect.
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#45 Crew

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 08:37 AM

With 700 resilience I can almost live through a full CS/KS from a rogue in a similar amount of pvp gear. I have to trinket the pounce from a feral to live unless I'm doing 2s in which case I have my druid full hot me and crank regrowths before I open on the healer in feral/healer comps. Also when we fight feral/healer the feral routinely does 2-4 times as much damage as I do. But thats ok because I have a (dispellable) ms effect.


No feral will argue that our burst damage is ridiculous (unless they're playing a completely different game than us). You all act like you blame us for the spec being this way. :/

I've always felt feral burst needs some toning down. Like Disstance has mentioned, a nerf to the shred glyph would be good. When my shreds are doing [almost] as much damage as a 5 point FB on bleeding stunned/incapacitated targets, something is wrong. :(

Edit: Honestly, feral, retadin, dk, hunter, and tg warrior burst all need a look at.
Even warlock damage is kind of insane right now.
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#46 Miirkat

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 03:50 PM

I've always felt feral burst needs some toning down. Like Disstance has mentioned, a nerf to the shred glyph would be good. When my shreds are doing [almost] as much damage as a 5 point FB on bleeding stunned/incapacitated targets, something is wrong. :(

I definitely feel Shred is doing most of our burst damage. Hell, most of the time I use my combo points for Rip instead of Ferocious Bite unless I'm going for a kill. Shred just seems more efficient than a bite in many cases.
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#47 Confide

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 07:10 PM

I definitely feel Shred is doing most of our burst damage. Hell, most of the time I use my combo points for Rip instead of Ferocious Bite unless I'm going for a kill. Shred just seems more efficient than a bite in many cases.


I agree to a shred nerf if they remove the positional requirement.

It is easy as hitting S key avoid putting your back to a feral for extended amounts of time.

On the topic of endless shifting. We could do it before also, but we had 8-9k mana pools back then also. The difference now is we cannot heal for 1/2 as much as we used to, but in return we do more damage. aka dumbing the class down.

Its dumb I dont agree with it, many don't, but deal with it.
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#48 Miirkat

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 08:47 PM

I agree to a shred nerf if they remove the positional requirement.

It is easy as hitting S key avoid putting your back to a feral for extended amounts of time.

I can't really say I agree with this, considering the low CD of Maim and being generally faster than many classes.

I always kinda wondered why people felt improved Mangle was a good skill to get considering how much easy it is to get Shreds on targets, even if they are strafing and keeping their backs from you.
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#49 Datah

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 06:22 AM

Dps classes that have no MS should NOT be viable in a 2v2 healer + dps setup.
Why? Its pretty fucking simple, if that class is capable of killing stuff through his damage/cc alone then it will be completely retarded when paired with an MS class in 3s.

Fuck 2s, feral should NEVER be viable in 2s, neither should ret nor DK's for that matter.



You're correct that this is a problem, but the solution is not "LOL ONLY CLASSES WITH MS SHOULD BE VIABLE IN 2S"

the solution is nerf MS so that it's not as essential (obviously requiring some toning down of healing) and give the classes that rely on it other stuff to make up for it.

and yes, burst damage is too high from everyone (and ferals are a prime culprit; Glyph of Shred is the first place to adjust that), and so is healing, so those still need to be toned down too.


Excluding half the game from 2s is the dumbest solution imaginable.
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#50 Lug

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Posted 25 February 2009 - 08:15 AM

You're correct that this is a problem, but the solution is not "LOL ONLY CLASSES WITH MS SHOULD BE VIABLE IN 2S"

the solution is nerf MS so that it's not as essential (obviously requiring some toning down of healing) and give the classes that rely on it other stuff to make up for it.

and yes, burst damage is too high from everyone (and ferals are a prime culprit; Glyph of Shred is the first place to adjust that), and so is healing, so those still need to be toned down too.


Excluding half the game from 2s is the dumbest solution imaginable.


Honestly, in terms of balancing PvP, the best solution would be to remove the 2s bracket ( and replace it with 4v4 ) because you can't balance around it and because of that you can't balance classes in PvP around the ms debuff which means certain classes need often unhealable burst.
If you could assume that an ms debuff was always available in arena you could balance the damage of some classes and give them extra utility to compensate.
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#51 Confide

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Posted 28 February 2009 - 05:32 AM

new shred change seems fair imo...
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#52 Pjortt

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 09:20 AM

Lol, a decent tree is nowai to go for me as feral even with full bleed effects up the Tree will never go oom cuz they mostly play with retri/hunters on my bg. If they have 3x lifebloom+rejuv on them and they know how to play noway i can burst them down either you end up low energy after all your bleeds are up or they just keep them selfs topped of by spamming nourish or whatever anyway Idontcare what people say a decent resto won't die from a feral.

And if you say a feral is better then a rogue in every single way right.. What about blind, ms, gauge and evasion shitloads of stuff we don't have not like we need em but that shit makes me unable to crap against rogues they just gauge me everytime they feel like im bursting them.
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#53 Erch

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 09:23 PM

Lol, a decent tree is nowai to go for me as feral even with full bleed effects up the Tree will never go oom cuz they mostly play with retri/hunters on my bg. If they have 3x lifebloom+rejuv on them and they know how to play noway i can burst them down either you end up low energy after all your bleeds are up or they just keep them selfs topped of by spamming nourish or whatever anyway Idontcare what people say a decent resto won't die from a feral.

And if you say a feral is better then a rogue in every single way right.. What about blind, ms, gauge and evasion shitloads of stuff we don't have not like we need em but that shit makes me unable to crap against rogues they just gauge me everytime they feel like im bursting them.


Thanks for walking into the conversation 5 pages late.
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#54 Protoz

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 11:01 PM

Lol, a decent tree is...........


Lol..... patch notes were here a week ago, ferals nerfed....
End thread.
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#55 Flexir

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 11:23 PM

Thread - signature, signature thread. Ferals are worse than hunters! :'(
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They need to fire that Asian guy.

He knows hardly anything about the game apart from what logic dictates, its as if he is there to make it sound more official.

He can't talk about taking a shit without making it sound official.

" I am going to take a shit here at MLG Raleigh featuring World of Warcraft 3 versus 3 arena.


#56 ra1nmak3r

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 11:31 PM

Thread - signature, signature thread. Ferals are worse than hunters! :'(


I really wish that were true :<
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#57 Leafy

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Posted 02 March 2009 - 11:56 PM

If people don't understand that pure dps/burst classes that do well in 2v2 in a healer/dps, will be overpowered in 3v3 (where the game is ultimately balanced around) they have a seriously low understanding of the game.

I'm not going to bloody draw it out for you.

Feral should NOT be viable in 2v2 with a healer.
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#58 ra1nmak3r

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 12:02 AM

If people don't understand that pure dps/burst classes that do well in 2v2 in a healer/dps, will be overpowered in 3v3 (where the game is ultimately balanced around) they have a seriously low understanding of the game.

I'm not going to bloody draw it out for you.

Feral should NOT be viable in 2v2 with a healer.


YA IT SHULD STUF
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xfire=ohherro, Inferior - DACELOL: and i blew my load so hard it shot threw my shorts onto my keyboard

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#59 Leafy

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 12:14 AM

WAT U DO STUF UR RAITINGZ R NO GUD SO STFU
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Druids were not weak in S5


Druids weren't weak in s5 at all, some people realized how to play them and beat dk teams, some didn't.


#60 Mcwiggles

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 12:26 AM

Maim is a stun 3.1
shred glyph is no longer 20% + dmg in incapacitate or stun.

happy now QQers?

just cause feral was bump up to scale with other classes in 2v2/3v3 people start to cry.
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