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Is feral too powerful?


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#21 Datah

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 05:52 PM

Shifting needs to run them out of mana as it did season 1-4, as it did pre 3.08. Shifting non stop, no need for innervate, most likely not even aware ferals have innervate, but who can blame them having a full mana bar.

And yes resetting GCD is all it does, that and your 1.0 attack speed. Unless there's some feral w.o lolol 5 points furor lolol. Pretty good trade off.


Ferals have an entire 6000 mana before MotW. If they're "shifting out to cyclone and heal" all the time, they'll be oom in no time. It's only shifting that is cheap.

In BC, in PvP gear, I had 9200 mana with MotW and shifts cost 580 mana.

In LK, in PvP gear (or any gear), I have 6600 mana with MotW and shifts cost 244 mana. At the same time, CC and healing have almost doubled in cost.

So I can shift more, but I still get much less out of my mana pool.

Of course, my regen is better now because of iLotP as long as I am actively attacking something. At the same time, I have about half as much actual MP5 as I did at 70, and this will be cut another 40% next patch. I get about 1000 mana, total, back from Innervate or something dumb like that.

Spamming hibernate/roots/cyclone at a feral is an extremely effective way of controlling them significantly (you trade a 1.5s cast for a GCD. Stack hots, do that, and they aren't doing any damage if they're on your partner). Hibernate being instant cast would give you TWO spammable ranged CCs on ferals that do not share DR and that would be completely unavoidable (you ALREADY have two spammable ranged CCs to use on me, but at least I can avoid one of them). You think that wouldn't be ridiculous?
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#22 Crew

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 05:52 PM

Shifting needs to run them out of mana as it did season 1-4, as it did pre 3.08. Shifting non stop, no need for innervate, most likely not even aware ferals have innervate, but who can blame them having a full mana bar.

And yes resetting GCD is all it does, that and your 1.0 attack speed. Unless there's some feral w.o lolol 5 points furor lolol. Pretty good trade off.


We didn't ask for them to take all the intellect off our gear that we had previous seasons, k guy.

I and many other feral druids who played as the spec previous seasons prefer how feral used to be, but there's nothing we can really do about that now is there.

That being said, feral burst does need some toning down.

Edit: Datah, why are you everywhere. <3
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#23 Datah

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 05:54 PM

We didn't ask for them to take all the intellect off our gear that we had previous seasons, k guy.

I and many other feral druids who played as the spec previous seasons prefer how feral used to be, but there's nothing we can really do about that now is there.

That being said, feral burst does need some toning down.

Edit: Datah, why are you everywhere. <3


<333

I stopped by gorgonnash the other day but you were offline!!!! :(
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#24 Miirkat

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 06:53 PM

killing rogues in a pounce duration is not balanced.

Not my problem they're running the amount of PVE gear that they do, let alone failing to get a sap off first.
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#25 Dize

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 07:46 PM

Not my problem they're running the amount of PVE gear that they do, let alone failing to get a sap off first.


If a Rogue gets opened on by a Feral Druid, that's already a sign of failing, I agree.
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#26 Leafy

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 10:40 PM

Dps classes that have no MS should NOT be viable in a 2v2 healer + dps setup.
Why? Its pretty fucking simple, if that class is capable of killing stuff through his damage/cc alone then it will be completely retarded when paired with an MS class in 3s.

Fuck 2s, feral should NEVER be viable in 2s, neither should ret nor DK's for that matter.
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#27 megakill

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 10:53 PM

RESTO NEDS BUFFS!!. It is really frustrating to heal as resto. Dks give me so much more problem.
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#28 Miirkat

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 10:59 PM

Dps classes that have no MS should NOT be viable in a 2v2 healer + dps setup.
Why? Its pretty fucking simple, if that class is capable of killing stuff through his damage/cc alone then it will be completely retarded when paired with an MS class in 3s.

Fuck 2s, feral should NEVER be viable in 2s, neither should ret nor DK's for that matter.

I'm going to resent this statement to a certain extent.

True, the burst compensation for classes without MS (Ret DK and Feral) is just stupid, especially when you throw massive amount of PVE gear into the mix as all 3 classes have to some decent survivability talents.

However, saying that non MS classes have no right to be in 2s with a healer is just wrong.

I can recall Feral/Resto druids being a workable comp back at 70 as well as Enhance/Restokin. What about Warlock+Healer. Do those comps not belong?

I may be bias in saying this as well, but I feel Feral/Disc is a very strong comp that deserves it's place in 2s. Even if you cut down the amount of burst Ferals do, it's not going to be a significant change in the strategy.

Now when you're considering 3s, I'm going to completely agree that damage (not only burst) is just crazy right now and really needs to be fixed. Once there is more resilience/stamina on gear (of if Blizz ever decides on fixing resil) you'll be seeing more Resto Druids and Disc Priests running around without having to gem stack resil/stam, and being able to do more without having to spam each global as a heal.

Really, if anything though, saying that only classes with MS (Warrior/Rogue/Hunter) should be the only classes viable really is counter productive. Fix the issues at hand, but don't limit the possibilities of the variety of different comps in arenas.
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#29 Dize

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Posted 23 February 2009 - 11:27 PM

Dps classes that have no MS should NOT be viable in a 2v2 healer + dps setup.
Why? Its pretty fucking simple, if that class is capable of killing stuff through his damage/cc alone then it will be completely retarded when paired with an MS class in 3s.

Fuck 2s, feral should NEVER be viable in 2s, neither should ret nor DK's for that matter.


No, just no.

Previous seasons:

Restokin or Resto Druid + Enhancement Shaman
Discipline Priest + Feral Druid
Restokin + Frost Mage / PoM Pyro Mage
Disc Priest + Frost Mage / PoM Pyro Mage
Disc Priest + Warlock (back when they had no healing reduce effects)
Druid + Warlock

Etc etc
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#30 Mooneternal

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 12:05 AM

Lol wow... well whatever on the non-ms classes, they belong in 2s also, everyone does. I need to admit that in 3s its pretty funny to see a feral rape something but hey, dks, hunters and rets do it too. Add fury warriors haha they are totally retarded if you ask me.

To the healers dying to a feral druid that fast, especially for resto druids: I play hunter-druid(resto) in 2s atm and there is no way a feral will kill me if I stick to tree and keep myself hotted. Unless he pops CDs and gets lucky on crits I won't ever die. I wear about 800 res too, with 20k hp. They sure hit hard, but rets do it easily too for example.

EDIT: Idk why but my spec is feral on AJ, I did not arena feral ever so act like I'm resto.
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#31 Sir H

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 12:10 AM

as lock/druid

we cant survive feral/rogue

druids just cant outheal the dmg...and its all from the feral druid...the rogue just stuns and blinds..lol
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#32 Mooneternal

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 12:12 AM

You play lock druid(ily).



But yes feral-rogue is pretty anoying to play against because its not healable.
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#33 bk

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 12:27 AM

To the comment about ferals needing innervate: prior to the tenacity change we would run out of mana very quickly - and innervate on a feral druid just barely recovers more mana than the innervate itself costs. It's not enough for a full shift - and that's if you let the full duration of it stay on you.

I'm being very judgemental but I'm looking at ratings and most people saying feral is overpowered (at least in the 2s bracket) aren't above 2300 where you really start to see that it is closer to even with the other classes/comps out there. Rogues can lock down a feral very well. At least in the comp I run (feral/sham), rogues are probably the most difficult class for us to deal with.


im 2400 and from a mage pov feral druids are ridiculous, one of their gouge stuns i cant block or trinket is auto death, their burrst is insane, and you CANNOT target them, or they take no damage, feral needs specific pvp and tanking talents, not to be uber at both

what if warriors had prot surv. and fury dps all at the click of the button they can swap between?
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#34 Leafy

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 12:32 AM

No, just no.

Previous seasons:

Restokin or Resto Druid + Enhancement Shaman
Discipline Priest + Feral Druid
Restokin + Frost Mage / PoM Pyro Mage
Disc Priest + Frost Mage / PoM Pyro Mage
Disc Priest + Warlock (back when they had no healing reduce effects)
Druid + Warlock

Etc etc


err..your point? you just listed some setups that dont have ms and are succesful in 2s, how is that a counter argument...

priest mage was only good because it countered the most mainstream setup and druid + dps in general.

druid lock compensated for not having MS by having retarded amounts of CC.

suprise suprise, those 2 setups were also the most powerful 3s in tbc, WLD and RMP
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#35 Mooneternal

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 01:01 AM

Its a counter agument because he just told you some were and still are viable for the most of them. MS is not a must in pvp 2v2 arena right now and it is fun, I guess. I like it, even if it can be more than anoying to get bursted down 100-0 in a hoj. lol. Don't start me on dks or I'll throw chairs. :DD
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#36 elorahnahimi

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 01:30 AM

Maim breaks on a set amount of damage, so no, your paladin isn't being killed in one maim, unless he's already very low in health. And no, a resto druid with 900 resilience and full hots does not die in 3 global cooldowns to a feral druid. People need to stop pulling ridiculous numbers out of their asses.

For four seasons, feral druids were absolute garbage and resto druids never had to deal with them. Now you finally have to and you just sit here crying while completely ignoring the fact that the only reason feral is even viable, is because of Paladins and shamans. Don't blame the problems of resto druids on feral.


and what is that set damage? pretty sure i've been 100%-0% stun locked by a feral druid before.
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What this game really needs is a Duelist mount. It can be the same model as the Gladiator mount, but maybe have a gimpy leg and only be able to fly around in circles. I'd still ride it.

#37 elorahnahimi

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 01:37 AM

and no feral druids do not oom, i've had 30+min games vs feral/paladin and when we killed the druid he had 95% mana.. and he was chain shifting snares and cc spamming.
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What this game really needs is a Duelist mount. It can be the same model as the Gladiator mount, but maybe have a gimpy leg and only be able to fly around in circles. I'd still ride it.

#38 Leafy

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 01:52 AM

Its a counter agument because he just told you some were and still are viable for the most of them. MS is not a must in pvp 2v2 arena right now and it is fun, I guess. I like it, even if it can be more than anoying to get bursted down 100-0 in a hoj. lol. Don't start me on dks or I'll throw chairs. :DD


it wasn't -.-

i said it SHOULDNT be viable in 2s, not that it ISNT, the whole point of my argument was that none ms classes are doing VERY well in 2s atm...

edit: which is bad for the game in reasons posted above ;O
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#39 Kluian_

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 02:11 AM

I don't think they care to nerf feral because not enough people play it to make it an issue, and the 2 other druid trees are even worse off.
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#40 harlequinkopeck

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Posted 24 February 2009 - 02:12 AM

it wasn't -.-

i said it SHOULDNT be viable in 2s, not that it ISNT, the whole point of my argument was that none ms classes are doing VERY well in 2s atm...

edit: which is bad for the game in reasons posted above ;O



Oh, don't even get started on the amount of utility these non-ms dps hybrids have.

LOL HOJ YOUR ALMOST DEAD. OH NO! YOU ALMOST KILLED MY BAD SHAMAN? ILL BOP HIM AND OFFHEAL. K NOW ILL KEEP DPSING WITH INFINITE MANA
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