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Shaman Feedback Thread


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#1 Tyveris

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 05:14 PM

Hello Shamans, there has been some interest in what top arena players thought about their class in the official feedback thread of the WoW forums. If you posted there, please give your thoughts below.

#2 gatoja

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 02:23 PM

shaman issues can be summed up in one word: mobility


as elemental and resto you cant get melee off you
as enhancement you cant get to your target

This extremely glaring weakness is mitigated greatly by the beast that is 5v5 but it means that we are hands down the weakest "low bracket" class.  

Simply put, giving shaman an "escape" button or a "closing" button would have little effect on 5v5 but actual give shaman a chance to get gladiator in another bracket.  

Other issues are annoying, but can be worked around-
weakness to counterspell
akwardness of the totem system (totems have really shown their crappiness with light to arena.  The fact that they are removed by a paladin swinging his 40 dps healing mace or a simple pet macro is pretty lame)


Things I would like to see but probably wont b/c they would push shaman over the edge in 5v5-
hex: This spell in a usuable CC form would propel shaman to the first and foremost desirable support 5v5 class.  Hell, you might even bring shaman numbers out of the gutter.  The way I envision it is as a 30 second CD instant cast spell that turns a player into a critter.  It does not heal them, whenever they take damage, it breaks the effect, and they still have all mobility, they just cannot use abilities.

Its like a sheep, except you can still move around where you want and dont gain health.

Oh and it lasts 4-6 seconds.
http://tsericdown.ytmnd.com/

Earthshock: the only silence that silences the caster for nearly as long!

#3 Porkmuffin

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 08:53 PM

For me aside from fixing Earth shield

I would love to see Ghost Wolf work like travel form.  Or at the very least make it instant cast.

#4 EMCL

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 09:58 PM

Many, many, many of our problems can be attributed to mobility.

#5 Loveshock

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 05:11 AM

Emcl said:

Many, many, many of our problems can be attributed to mobility.

I'm in complete agreement, once someone has their hands on us they pretty much control us until they decide to let us go.

Rogues- Hard to get away from even with the ability to cleanse their snare with a totem and a spell and can get right back to us with their array of cds.

Warriors- Spamstring/macestun/intercept.

Warlocks- With a simple totem killing macro, they can pretty much lock shamans down with fear/tongues/spell lock. Earthshock, grounding totem, los all help against warlocks, but once you start to have to heal your partner you become extremely vulnerable because of tongues.

Frost mages- nothing much needs to be said.

priest- One of the only classes that can't lock us down completely, they can however still control us via mana burns/fear/silence(for spriest).

hunters- Frost trap and wingclip spam.

druid- Cyclone, roots, cyclone, feral charge, cyclone, bash, cyclone, maim, cyclone, cyclone, cyclone.

Paladins- The only class that has no way to control us, other than HoJ (seal of justice, but it's rare to see a paladin use it) which has a medium cd.

shamans- you can't really get away from another shamans who wants to cuddle your balls since they can counter anything you do with the exact same move.

Honesty, i think the problem isn't with the other classes abilities to control us, but with the lack of our ability to stop them. A small universal mobility/anti-cc buff would do wonders for shamans in lower bracket arenas, in my opinion.

#6 garmir

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 04:33 PM

What I've noticed as a resto shaman is that our 41 talent point ability doesn't have any use while fighting in the arena, it will either get dispelled 85% of the fights or you'll be forced to switch to water shield b/c it's alot more mana efficient. Just by reducing it's mana cost from 900 to 450 isn't going to save us if we're locked down with some 1 constantly dispelling it right after we reapply it (f.e. a hunter and a skill herald warrior).

Because of the fact that basicly any class can CC us for long enough to kill our team players we are the worst healing class in 2's and 3's bracket. Ofcourse there will be shamans that manage to get top rating as resto but compared to a druid we have a clear  disadvantage.

Shaman:
-Survivibility: Earthen Shield (high risk on getting dispelled + alot of mana to recast), 3 minute cooldown instant heal, nature's guidance and grounding totem (always gets destroyed by an offencive spell so won't prevent CC most of the time).
-CC: Earth shock to interupt a heal for 2 seconds.
-Offencive: Shocks, heroism (can get spell stealed which would infact make it even harder for you) and totems (however any 1 can destroy it as it only has 1 hp and the "destroy me" animation of the mana tide aint making it easyer for shamans)


Priests:
-Survivibility: They absorb everything you throw at them if you arn't spamming purge untill they die, dispell dots and PS makes sure they or their team members won't die.
-CC: Fear and mind control.
-Offencive: Power Infusion, mana burn, dispell/mass dispell and a shadow word: death when needed.

Paladins:
-Survivibility: Plate armor, devine shield, Blessing of protection, Divine illumination, Blessing of freedom, dispelling magic effects+poisons. All by all rarly making them a target to get nuked so they can heal like a king.
-CC: Hammer of justice.
-Offencive: Judgement of Justice to counter druids, small bursts of damage when needed.

Druids:
-Survivibility: Travel form, hot based healing making them very mobile, Bear form, cyclone/root/bash/NG to CC and go heal up.
-CC: Cyclone, entangling roots, nature's grasp, feral charge, bash, maim.
-Offencive: CC'ing the healers with the following combo: Cyclone, cyclone, cyclone -> feral charge -> bash -> maim  if the target aint down by then cyclone the target thats being nuked  and redo the combo again on the healer.

So if we go and compare the shaman class to the other classes we see that shamans are at a clear disadvantage; We have no real way of CC'ing, we die fast due to our ES getting dispelled and if they don't go for you and decide to CC you instead you're a sitting duck due to no hot's/any other damage prevention while you're CC'ed. Sure we have heroism, untill it gets dispelled or spell stealed by a mage. I've played alot of 2's and 3's as a resto shaman and because of our disadvantages I don't see any combo that would prefer a resto shaman over any other healing class.

It's not the other classes that are overpowered it's us being underpowered.
Mobility is another thing, we just can't get away even with poison cleanse we can't get away from rogues, maybe for 5 seconds - untill they sprint after you.

What are my sugjestions?
-Give resistance to getting our buffs dispelled - making ES actualy useful in the arena.
-Give totems more hp preventing a single 40 dps mace swing from killing a 200-350 mana cost totem (because in a way any class can dispell our buffs).
-Give us some more mobility, maybe make ghostwolf remove snare effects uppon cast.
-Some form of CC other than earth shock (which doesn't have any real effect).

#7 Specineff

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 07:36 AM

I would have to agree with the above posters.  Mobility seems to be the primary issue with all three specs, which leads to shaman being easily controlled by most classes.

Elemental: The only caster class that has no crowd control abilties.

Enhancement: Has no way to catch back up to people like other melee classes, such as rogue and warrior.  Needs some type of intercept.  Also has no way to mitigate damage, ie. rogue dodge/evasion, warrior high hp and armor.

Restoration: Earthshield should not be purgable - this is a class defining abiltity.  Without earthshield a resto shaman is just like a paladin with holy light and none of their protections.
TEAM NASTY

#8 Mionee

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 10:21 AM

I feel like our totems should get a 30% chance to dodge/resist any ability or spell performed against them (excluding Grounding Totem), and that pets shouldn't be able to attack them. Destroying a totem, like dispelling any buff in wow, should require a GCD or autoswing from a player.

Apart from that, our problems aren't shaman-specific. (LoS, spellcasting-only, etc.)

#9 garmir

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 12:05 PM

Specineff said:

Enhancement: has no way to mitigate damage, ie. rogue dodge/evasion, warrior high hp and armor.

Quote

Shamanistic rage: reduces all damage taken by 30%

Specineff said:

Restoration:resto shaman is just like a paladin with holy light and none of their protections.
plate anyone?

Mionee said:

I feel like our totems should get a 30% chance to dodge/resist any ability or spell performed against them
To say the least, a priests shadowfiend basicly resists all your spells and has a high dodge chance making it unkillable -> gives priest enough mana back, unlike our mana tide.
A paladins 41 point Divine Illumination always goes by unnoticed and so on.

#10 Ainbar

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 02:00 PM

Imo the problem with shaman is that EVERYTHING we do is LoS based. We don't have HoTs, we don't have DoTs. Every spell we cast requires us to stand still and channel on our target, and all of our spells share the same school, so what ends up happening is as we stand still channeling a lightning bolt or a heal, every player on their team sees a red flag for an interrupt, as interrupting a shaman is so effective.

As far as our overall power level I think we're fine, but need to be tuned to be more effective in 2s and 3s.

#11 Dubuyan

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Posted 23 December 2007 - 02:39 AM

-Elemental 40/0/21
-PvP, although I do raid on the side mainly for better pvp gear(rings, relic etc.)

Area's in need of improvement:
1) Shamans to this day are the only class without a CC or a stun(not including the 1 totem), we also have severe lack of anti cc(1 trinket, a killable tremor, and a 15s base cd tremor).

2) In pve with the right gear and shadowpriest our mana is semi-sustainable, however in pvp this is far from the case. In pve i spam LB; in pvp I purge, drop tots, shock more often, and also get mana burned by hunters+locks+priests.

3) Almost every other damage based tree's have amazing pvp 41 and 31 point talents, EM is nice, but purgeable/interruptable, and ToW is a joke to use for pvp. Thus I am forced to go into the 40/0/21 build for NS for pvp and then 41/0/21 for pve, causing me to spend between 200-300g per week to raid and arena.

Specific spells/abilities/talents
1) 41 point elemental talent is extremely weak in pvp and not better than NS
2) fire elementals were great in tbc, but not useable in arena, possibly 15m CD with a 50-75% dmg nerf
3) Totems have a short duration, are killable, and put is in the GCD to recast and the FSR
4) My tier 2 talent(ELEMENTAL protection) is 10% reduction to fire, frost, and NATURE, but why is it that curse of ELEMENTS, is just fire and frost, not nature.
5) Tremor totem is very easily killable even after the fear is cast with 5 second pulses and a meak 40yrd range, where in pvp you move around alot

#12 Limewire

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Posted 31 December 2007 - 10:07 PM

I'd personally like to see most of our totems not nature spells, so we wouldn't be completely useless when we get our nature tree interrupted.

#13 Flesseck

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Posted 06 April 2008 - 11:50 PM

Limewire said:

I'd personally like to see most of our totems not nature spells, so we wouldn't be completely useless when we get our nature tree interrupted.

Didn't our healing spells used to be water spells back in original beta?  This would have been nice to see implemented.

Also, with Patch 2.4, Ghost Wolf and Toughness have helped mobility issues.  My only wish would have been to receive somewhat like the Druid's Travel Form mobility with the Improved Ghost Wolf talent.  Regardless, I'm grateful for the changes.

#14 Limewire

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Posted 07 April 2008 - 12:13 AM

Flesseck said:

Didn't our healing spells used to be water spells back in original beta?  This would have been nice to see implemented.

Also, with Patch 2.4, Ghost Wolf and Toughness has helped mobility issues.  My only wish would have been to receive somewhat like the Druid's Travel Form mobility with the Improved Ghost Wolf talent.  Regardless, I'm grateful for the changes.

Not sure.

A shaman with 12k armor with breaking snares Ghost Wolf would be extremely overpowered.

Also, welcome to 4months ago:P

#15 elbombero

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Posted 05 May 2008 - 10:13 PM

why are you whining, you gotS ancestral recalls meight!




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