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Paladin Feedback Thread


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#1 Tyveris

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 05:10 PM

Hello Paladins, there has been some interest in what top arena players thought about their class in the official feedback thread of the WoW forums. If you posted there, please give your thoughts below.

#2 Baconn

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 07:19 PM

first

I didn't post there, because usually those forums are useless.

I've got two halves to the argument however.

Ret paladins rely heavily on their partners' ability to lock down casters/healers or their ability to reduce healing done, as a paladin has no way to interrupt casts at all or reduce healing done. A paladin's damage can be extremely high however, combined with the ability to offheal in emergencies, keep up blessings and chain cleanse, Ret Paladins are great for certain setups.

What Ret Paladins need are some kind of small interrupt, not as powerful as pummel, but along the lines, perhaps more. Repentance also needs a shorter cooldown, perhaps Hammer of Justice too. Paladins rely on these abilities to lock down casters, and they're less effective in most situations to cyclone, while having a much longer cooldown. edit: Another thing that would be nice is to have Seal of Command and Judgement of Command to be adjusted so they are no longer affected by spell damage (or the amount is lowered) and they scale more with AP. As of now, I use Judgement of Command on it's highest rank only if I have infinite mana or Avenging Wrath/Berserking is up. Otherwise I use rank 1 to set off my libram or force a crit for vengeance.

Holy paladins are still very effective healers, between extremely efficient heals, plate armor with a shield, and bubble for when things get iffy, they're very hard to crack for some combos and almost a stable for 5v5s. In 2v2s they are moderately powerful, but only work with warriors and druids, and in rare cases rogues. In 3v3s they're weak unless paired with another healer in most circumstances. They're easily locked down by caster teams with their lack of instant heals or heal over times, but with proper pillar dodging they are still very powerful healers and can't be left alone.
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#3 Vander

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 08:06 PM

I agree with Baconn on the retribution topic.
1. Repentance is just not good enough for a 31 point talent as it is right now.
2. Paladins need some kind of interrupting spel / effect. Even a curse of tongues effect on Crusaderstrike would be of alot of help.
3. Either have ALL spells affected by AP or give our spelldmg back, as it is now it feels very unfinished.

#4 Neb

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 08:45 PM

Being the only class that has to be in LOS the most because of one long casting but effective heal, a short casting but requires "spamming" heal, and a 15 sec cooldown instant cast petty excuse for a heal makes me a sad panda.
I'm full of fail

#5 Saffira

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 08:47 PM

Meh,

In all honesty I love the way my class plays.  I am the only class who can wear full pve gear and be perfectly fine.  I can stack pure healing/mp5/crit gems and not have to worry about resilience.

In 2's, with a lock, we dominate.  We can beat any team at any given point due to our superior flexibility and survivability

In 3's, this is where we slack.  Having no HoT's or instant heals and having to cast every spell makes for EZ CC and focus.  However, if you run with 2 healers, you make it that much easier on yourself.  The other combo I have found that works well is Hunter/Pally/Warrior.  If you leave the hunter alone your mana goes away very quickly.  Plus the ability to kite makes things nice and lessens overall dmg.

In 5's, we are pretty much guaranteed to be on every good well balanced team.  We work in all combos and add so much to each team.  

If I could ask for anything I would want more offensive abilities.  I basically have to LoS everything and only when we need to assist do I hammer or Arcane Torrent a healer.  If anything I would want one spell interrupt or make repentance trainable, and give ret another interrupt or slowing skill deep in the tree so that they become more viable.

#6 Neb

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 09:01 PM

Saffira said:

Meh,

In all honesty I love the way my class plays.  I am the only class who can wear full pve gear and be perfectly fine.  I can stack pure healing/mp5/crit gems and not have to worry about resilience.

Don't you think thats a problem?  Crazy idea, but PvP gear should be best for PvP and PvE gear should be best for PvE.  There can be some overlapping but the extent of which paladins take it is a bit extreme.
I'm full of fail

#7 Baconn

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Posted 14 December 2007 - 11:43 PM

Saffira said:

Meh,

In all honesty I love the way my class plays.  I am the only class who can wear full pve gear and be perfectly fine.  I can stack pure healing/mp5/crit gems and not have to worry about resilience.

This is somewhat a problem: Raiding gear shouldn't be the best gear for pvp, granted more power to you if those you fight don't realize you're not wearing resilience and you can gear out just by carebearing.

It must be funny when you fight teams with crazy affliction warlocks/rogues and fast priests.
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#8 Xios

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 12:23 AM

Neb said:

Meh,

In all honesty I love the way my class plays. I am the only class who can wear full pve gear and be perfectly fine. I can stack pure healing/mp5/crit gems and not have to worry about resilience.

Itemization is one of the problems i have with the pally. There is no reason why t6 should be better in 2s than full s3, but it is. Our gear does need to incorporate mp5 better to encourage people to wear it. PvP gear should be the best for PvP, but it has only proven situationally stronger.

Other than the gear issue, one more offensive ability would be nice...nothing too strong but something to just even the playing field with a priest or druid.

#9 naught

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 12:26 AM

Paladins need work imo I quit mine a few weeks before season 2 and to say locks own in 2s is a joke a good druid warrior or druid lock will give you the business, and in 3s it can't be anymore obvious how easy it is to cc a paladin. 5s there fine.

#10 Saffira

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 02:22 AM

We beat every war/druid in my bracket and farmed the team that got merc which was war/druid and we have never lost to druid/lock ever.  >.<

Like stated above, pally pvp gear is poorly itemized. It does not have the mp5 needed to be competitive

In terms of wear full pve gear and getting blown up?  I think maybe like 2 times ever have I been blown up.  People know I wear the pve gear but still cannot do anything.  18,000 armor is more then enough to handle any melee target and LoS on casters is nice too.

#11 Keline

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 06:36 AM

I've skimmed through the thread on the official forum

EVERY SINGLE GOD DAMN HOLY PALADIN wrote Holy Shock as ability #1 with issues

1000g say Holy Shock will not change.

#12 AzrealDNT

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Posted 15 December 2007 - 07:30 AM

Since there hasn't been much serious discussion in this thread, here's what I wrote (page 50).
_________________________________________________________________

Talents: Holy, 41-20-0

Content: World First Raiding, Gladiator Level Arena

Issues:

       [1] Limitations of Healing: (PvP) Long cast times and few instant healing options greatly hinder mobility and leave a Paladin too exposed to interrupts, silences and crowd control. (PvE) Low healing output across multiple targets.

       [2] Lack of Offensive Control: (PvP) Brings little to no offensive utility to a group. A severe lack of crowd control, and few damage options unless very close to the target.

       [3] No Incentive to Change Aura: (PvP) No incentive to change to Resist Auras or Devotion Aura even when only affected by a specific spell school or physical damage. (PvE) No incentive to change to a different aura after a fight begins.



Spells, Abilities, Talents in question

       [1] Auras - Concentration Aura is used almost exclusively in PvP and PvE, Devotion Aura exception for main tank.

       [2] Holy Shock - Low healing output, high mana cost and short range, yet still a 31 point talent.

       [3] Cleanse - Talents adding resist to dispel and debuffs that stack render this spell less effective.

       [4] Divine Illumination - Short duration, long cooldown and limited effect for 41 point talent.

       [5] Lay on Hands - Long cooldown, and the amount healed is only slighlty higher than a critical heal from a base spell.
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#13 Naive

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 11:10 AM

All I'm asking for is either (1) some form of CC > HoJ or (2) some form of HoT. Give us one or the other and I'll be perfectly happy. Every other healing class has CC and HoTs BUT paladins (priests have both, although priest CC is also limited, and druids have both). Shamans are broken too, but that's not my problem. ;)

#14 Kags

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 02:39 PM

Ret is still not a top 20 spec, and holy is pretty lame in 2v2 and 3v3 these days.

#15 Nutron

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Posted 16 December 2007 - 10:46 PM

holy shock REALY needs to be improved much like everyone seems  to agree on...  It's such a poor 31 pt talent for our main talent tree..

#16 Bravehearth

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 12:56 AM

Cure Curse imo.
I am INTERNETSLIVE!

#17 Ubiq

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 06:51 AM

The paladin class in itself seems to be unfinished.

A few things I can think of off the top of my head.

-lack of spell interrupt
-snare/CD effect with no CD; ie every class in this game has a snare/CC/slow effect that has no or a minimal CD. Warriors have hamstring, rogues have crippling poison, mages have frost nova, priests/locks have fear, hunters have freezing trap and conc. shot, shamans have earthbind, druids have root/cyclone. We have nothing but JoJ which I don't even consider a slow effect, considering theres only one class in this game that suffers from this spell.
-lack of an aoe heal

Some changes that can take place within our abilities/trees...

-holy shock needs to be trainable. This ability in it's current form is pathetic for a talent, as many have said... long CD, mana:heal ratio is terrible, range is only 20 yds. The range should be increased to at least 30 yds. IMO to keep it worthy of a talent, holy shock should apply some form of HoT when used.
-consecration, albeit it's heavy mana cost, should heal allys within its area of effect.

LACK OF OFFENSIVE ABILITIES.

Paladins have only one effective offensive ability in the arena, which is hammer of justice (which is resisted 99% of the time.)

Every other healer in this game has some form of offensive ability they can put use alongside their healing abilities... priests have mana burn/fear/SW:D, shamans have shocks/totems/NS+CL finisher, and druids have roots/cyclone/faerie fire/bear form interrupt.

I honestly cannot think of something to fill in this empty spot currently but will try to come up with something.

Now I don't like my posts to be too negative so I at least will put in some positive perks to playing a paladin in the arena...

-ability to outlast other healers
-high armor count
-ability to use PvE gear in the arena. As much as you guys want to say "PvP gear should only be used for arena etc" take a good look at the arena gear and realize that it's itemization is garbage and has no mp5, which is a huge weakness considering the vast amount of drain teams playing these days.
-cleanse... poison+magic effect is hot

That's all I can think of right now and will add more as they come.

#18 Nynaeve

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 09:10 AM

you cant heal when you move.
you have no instant heals, and one reaction button in bop.
you are the weakest to CC of all the healers.
your dispel sucks.


the reason holy paladins are shit, is because I have to stand still and glow yellow like a christmas tree whilst i try and do my job. I'm pretty much a walking neon sign which says "CC HERE DUMBASS" and people finally learned to read it.

#19 Keline

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 09:56 AM

Quote

-consecration, albeit it's heavy mana cost, should heal allys within its area of effect.
This is a stupid suggestion that keeps coming up. Do you not realize how small the radius of consecration is?

#20 Linkie

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Posted 17 December 2007 - 02:19 PM

Cleanse + gcd in arena blows.
Some HoT would be nice for 3s.. ie: talent wise
An interrupt would be nice besides the HoJ which gets resisted 99.9% of the time.
Lol @ ret still.




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