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Tremor Totem


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#1 Pyrilus

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 07:53 AM

Hi everyone.

I posted this on the official forums a few days ago out of realization that many of my 2s and to a lesser extent 3s losses are due to the powerful nature of tremor totems in combination with the current cleave classes (rogues, warriors, hunters, DKs): http://forums.worldo...910062467&sid=1

The more and more I play, the more and more I realize that I have an inordinate amount of trouble with resto shamans' ability to spam tremor totems for low cost, no cooldown, and instant effect to virtually allow themselves and their partners to become effectively immune to my CC.

I fight a shaman, and the fight becomes 3 times harder; they are the healing class that is more of a counter than any other class that I can think of. Add a physical damagedealer, and I am not able to win unless RNG is in my favor. Ask those who watch my stream - shamans in themselves are pretty much a countercomp to me no matter what I do. Shaman teams often have a DK, rogue, SV hunter, Fury warrior, or Ret pally. Each one of these either keeps me immobile, does a ton of damage to me or to my pet, keeps me from casting, or a combination of all of the above.

Some points to address because I know they'll be brought up:

Totem stomping macro: My pet runs around killing these totems, sure, but the most skilled shamans either place varying totems in odd locations or they find ways to bug my pet. Additionally, my pet has no resilience and the physical damage classes I mentioned above more often than not have some sort of high end PvE gear (at the levels that I fight these people at).

Curses - Shamans can decurse now, so not only can I not reliably Tongues a shaman or control his teammates.

Obviously, many of you will blindly reject my premises but this is one thing I feel should be addressed in some form. Tremor needs to either have some kind of cooldown, some kind of penalty, or perhaps a longer tick time (which I don't favor, it's nice that Tremor is much more consistent than it used to be). But as it is right now, I more often than not might as well leave the game when I fight a shaman team for more than 5 minutes.


The thread is pretty much a cesspool of trolling and flaming though, but the context in which I posted it is that on top of being shut out by current resto shaman partners, just the fact that a tremor totem is spammable, cheap, and instantly effective (which is good I suppose, compared to how it used to be), it just puts these fights over the top.

My question for you guys is: Do you feel that Tremor Totem is balanced? Ignoring totem-stomping (because although totem stomping is spammable, it has limited use in 2s but gets better as you get to 3s and 5s), is it fair that Tremor can be used so quickly to cause Fear DRs on the entire team and make your team virtually immune to Fear? This really isn't anything against shamans as a class in general, because shamans still have a low representation comparatively, but do you really feel that Tremor is justified in its current incarnation?

My mindset when posting these things was that I'd noticed that when I was playing 2s, I'd fight all sorts of teams with resto shamans but since my HR pairs me up with top 5-20 teams, these resto shamans are already playing with the most geared players in the battlegroup. Dual Sinister Revenge, or DKs and TG warriors with at least one Betrayer, or SV hunters with 25 KT guns.

Give me your input.
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#2 Zestola

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:06 AM

All I know is I remember the days when a lock would cast fear, I would drop tremor and I would still be feared because it took so long to pulse giving the warlock enough time to spam his super pro(requires a lot of skill) totem macro. Tremor is fine.
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#3 Pyrilus

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:13 AM

Yeah, I remember that too. I really do remember the times where I considered healers as completely controllable because I could get full fears on them, with shamans and pallies being the most CCable due to casted-only heals.

But things have changed and I'm finding that resto shamans nullify everything I can think to do besides dot and tank.
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#4 xergul

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:19 AM

Tremor totem feels alright as it is. Even ignoring the totem stomping macro, the opposing team should find moments with enough pressure that the shaman won't always choose to use a gcd to put the totem down and opt for something else, especially if he's mid-cast while spamming heals, which should open an opportunity (it's narrow, but it's there) for someone to knock the tremor down and instant fear or coordinate a casted fear.

It should be even easier in 3s and 5s when the shaman doesn't have as many spare globals to be monitoring totems.
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#5 Sized

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:20 AM

Yeah it's pretty dumb and should be fixed... IMO it should have a 5-10 second cooldown at least.
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#6 Rice

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:21 AM

The fact that we can drop totems while silenced is perhaps one of the bigger culprits despite being somewhat under the radar. No more spell lock -> fear for a guaranteed cc.

I am still bitter from s3 and s4 against druid/lock teams spamming moonfire and pet macros on my totems to the point where it was a complete waste of a gcd, let alone mana. However, that's not to say that I think it's 100% fine right now.

This is a very tricky situation. Tremor is intrinsically very vulnerable, which is why it had no cooldown. The thing is, because of the nature of the spell, it either DESTROYS warlocks/priests or is utterly worthless. There is no middle ground.

The only thing I can think of would be to allow usage of tremor while feared/slept/charmed but give it like a 30 sec cd. or something. That way shamans don't have to keep spamming it while their opponent keeps spamming their macro. Playing the "totem mini-game" with hunters and warlocks gets pretty tiring.
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#7 Jarik

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:23 AM

Being able to remove curses is a pain on top of all of that. It needs to have a few more seconds on CD
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#8 Rice

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:25 AM

Being able to remove curses is a pain on top of all of that. It needs to have a few more seconds on CD


Cleanse spirit is perfectly fine. For much too long has a single warlock's CoT single handedly dominated shamans in arena. Besides, only resto shaman are going to have it :3
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#9 Zestola

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:25 AM

Giving it a cooldown would just hurt the shaman class vs priest teams like priest/rogue. If tremor isn't up and your about to get feared+blind its gg.
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#10 Jarik

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:31 AM

Cleanse spirit is perfectly fine. For much too long has a single warlock's CoT single handedly dominated shamans in arena. Besides, only resto shaman are going to have it :3

Oops I misworded it. I meant tremor should have a few seconds of a CD not cleanse spirit
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#11 Gnomeblaster

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:38 AM

Tremor Totem + Frost Trap makes me want to punch a hole in my monitor.
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#12 Zestola

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:40 AM

curse of tongues, fear and spell lock made me punch a hole in mine. :D
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#13 Kitore

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 10:17 AM

Shaman don't nearly dominate warlocks the way rogues dominate us. Like shaman are told in every thread:

"Arena isn't balanced, stop crying about rogue/mage."

I'm tempted to say something similar here.
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#14 Candya

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 10:31 AM

Tremor isn't stupider than CoT was and still is for ele...
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#15 Duckers

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 10:35 AM

Tremor seems perfectly fine to me, this coming from both a Shaman and a Warlock.
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#16 Sabottage

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 10:37 AM

give it a couple seconds cooldown.
3 or 5 is enough.
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#17 Wumba

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 10:46 AM

It doesn't make much sense to give tremor a cooldown, if you don't improve it's survivability.

I don't see pet macros removed any time soon, so I guess the only way would be to give tremor more HP(2K?), so it wasn't insta gibbed by a pet.
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#18 Arirang

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 10:52 AM

Tremor is fine. I seriously wrote 5 different replies trying to explplain why. It was like, long too!! Hahahhaha. Buuut forget it, it's pointless. I of course, think it's fine.
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#19 Muertona

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 10:59 AM

playing ret/priest i find tremor totem insanely annoying and game breaking.. unccable instant buffremoving healer
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#20 Duckers

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 11:06 AM

unccable instant buffremoving healer

Calling a Shaman an unccable instant buffremoving healer is like calling Priests/Paladins instant buffremoving healers who are completely immune to magic.

This whole "completely and utterly immune to fear!!!" thing is pretty dumb.

If anything, Tremor's pulse just needs to slow down. Giving it a cooldown would absolutely cripple it.
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