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sham/dk possible to beat mage/rogue?


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#1 Theslash

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Posted 31 January 2009 - 11:24 PM

Bullshit faceroll comp.

I get so outplayed by 15k pompyro/ab combos. Routinely killed in imp cs.

What talent.

Is it possible to beat this comp?

I understand my ratings blow, but i played ele/bm to 1970 s2, 1850s3.

Is it worth it to keep trying?

What strat do you high rated shamans use?
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#2 crackpantss

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 09:25 AM

Wat i try to do against that comp is stay as far away from the mage as possible and out of los. I send my dk in to fight the mage, he pops all cds and i lust. the rogue opens on me and then the mage blinks to me to throw his pom. whenever i hear the mage blow arcane power i trinket watever stun im in and drop my grounding totem. If u grounding the pop u will win. If the mage blinks and ur dk has death grip up, its good to have him use that to keep the mage away for as long as possible. It is a hard comp to beat, but it is doable. Alot of the fights end up with me dying regardless of wat i do and my dk finishing them off with bloodlust :)
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#3 Rice

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 07:42 PM

Arcane/mut? Chances are <1%. They have to mess up VERY badly for you to win. It doesn't matter how good you are, no shaman is skilled enough to outlive 8k->5k->5k crits while silenced with mortalhamstring of tongues.

Best bet is to drop AMZ (if your partner has it) and pray.
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#4 Triumvirate

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 07:49 PM

Bullshit faceroll comp.

I get so outplayed by 15k pompyro/ab combos. Routinely killed in imp cs.

What talent.

Is it possible to beat this comp?

I understand my ratings blow, but i played ele/bm to 1970 s2, 1850s3.

Is it worth it to keep trying?

What strat do you high rated shamans use?


Sham/DK is a very very very high skillcap. Looking at your ratings, you might want to consider a different comp (unless it's a friend or something). Just some friendly advice :)

Regardless, I don't think you guys are going to be winning against many mage/rogue teams. If they play it right, they win. But what your DK can do is this: Wait out the sap. Strangulate mage. Mark of Blood rogue. Pet stun rogue. Pop AMS as strangulate wears off. AMS to stop from getting pollied, trinket blind. Try to instagib rogue.

If he's blood, just Hysteria yourself.
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#5 Theslash

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 08:04 PM

Sham/DK is a very very very high skillcap. Looking at your ratings, you might want to consider a different comp (unless it's a friend or something). Just some friendly advice :)



I know you didn't mean it offensively lol, but it is a friend. Same guy I played with at 1850 in s3 as the ever-so-gimped shaman/hunter double dps comp, and he was on my 1970 5s team s2. So we're solid players.

I'm used to playing at a huge disadvantage. But mage/rogue is just unreal.

Do any mages are rogues think they are good?

I'm just tired of gettin merc'd by arc or mut in any combination of 2s or 3s, really. PMR and SMR destroy my comp.

Now, my 3s is resto/dk/shadow, and usually the problem is my shadow getting blown up without doing anything to contribute, because he's locked down and nuked in 1 or 2 globals.
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#6 Kqpro

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 11:04 PM

you have to be geared ( have to or no chance), and survive the initial burst by using AMZ , strangulate, then it is a guarantee win.
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#7 Rice

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Posted 01 February 2009 - 11:07 PM

you have to be geared ( have to or no chance), and survive the initial burst by using AMZ , strangulate, then it is a guarantee win.


You can't be serious?
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#8 Mip

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 05:07 AM

with dk you have a chance. as shaman warri and other its just auto loss
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#9 Parabolyc

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 05:17 AM

I love seeing mage/rogue teams. We have yet to lose to them. I've played with a holy paladin, shaman, and priest. Your healer has to have at least 600 resil. What I do is get in combat ASAP to prevent sap.. works most of the time. Hit the mage hard and use anti magic shield to prevent early polys. Blow CD's on him and grip the rogue off your healer using even ghoul stun to save him in a kidney. Mark of blood the rogue asap also. You should have the mage dead if not running to go evocate which is when you put the ghoul on the mage and stay on the rogue. Damage should be lessened significantly with this strat to the shaman where you can walk away with a win.
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#10 Applesauce

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 06:41 AM

What you really need to do is get an early hex off on the mage and force an ice block, so then the dk can be a little more offensive and have an easier time locking down the mage as he has the biggest numbers that kill you faster. As a shaman, you should be able to live through a rogue with riptide/es for their main burst, as long as your DK partner keeps the mage locked down for a little.

Right now I play with a destro lock and he fear juggles the 2 with some shadowfurys and if I survive 30seconds (their main cooldowns) its an easy win and from 1800+ about, we won every mage/rogue matchup except one where my lock dc'ed. Its all about living and you do that through CC and pressure on them.
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#11 Rice

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 06:51 AM

What you really need to do is get an early hex off on the mage and force an ice block, so then the dk can be a little more offensive and have an easier time locking down the mage as he has the biggest numbers that kill you faster. As a shaman, you should be able to live through a rogue with riptide/es for their main burst, as long as your DK partner keeps the mage locked down for a little.


So many things wrong with this.

First of all, you have mind numb and/or slow on you. That means your hex is a 2.4 second cast. Bloodlusted, it becomes a 2 second cast. Are you asking to be kicked/counterspelled? Keep in mind you only have 30% pushback reduction, so every hit takes your hex back .35 seconds more. Lastly, if by some miracle you didn't get kicked or counterspelled, your hex will probably get resisted by the mage. If the stars truly align, then the mage will simply trinket your hex, because there's nothing else to trinket against dk/shaman.

You cannot live through a mage/rogue "initial burst" with just riptide/es. You're healing at half capacity with arcane barrages and mutilates pounding you every second. You're pretty much forced to use NS heal in less than 5-6s of engaging.

A DK cannot keep an arcane mage "locked down" outside of his singular strangulate. Arcane mages exclusively use instant casts so it doesn't matter if your DK is bashing his face in, because the arcane mage is bashing your face in even harder.
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#12 fuuga

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 07:56 PM

AMZ asap, strangulate mage while your sham is stunned, ams after strangle wears off so you don't get polyd/novad, shaman should trinket ks and will probably have to NS at that point. If you have the room, try to spam poison cleanse totem till wound comes off before using NS. When I ran it we got on the rogue, and frost might actually be better thanks to most of the attacks going through evasion and being able to lichborne the sap. Though you don't get amz so meh. Try to save grounding for when you get imp csed since ap pyro is almost always going to come during that. Heroism right after you trinket ks if you can.

All the tips I can give, only faced mage/rogues from about 1900 or so though.
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totems alone are more buttons than rogues use you fucking downie

inb4 delete


#13 Levidian

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Posted 02 February 2009 - 08:00 PM

Don't forget about spell shield poly protection.

Save trinket for the blind utilize the "tank casters" aspect of your class to avoid polys.
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#14 Hurskas

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 09:34 AM

This is easy setup for u.
Im playing resto shaman/dk and we'll win almost all dual dps teams.
All ur DK have to do is rush fast to their base and chain the mage, use ams early so mage gets panic and uses frost nova and ure dk is immune cos of ams.
After poison nerfs and as a resto shaman u can dispel wounds from urself easily if the rogue comes on u, u must survive for 20secs or so with the rogue. Ure DK is bursting the mage. Slowed mage cant do anything to you, shaman. IF u see mage comes close to u, start running away or LOS, Also make sure that ur DK grips the mage ONLY AFTER HES BLINK.
If u and ur DK dont do that, theyre gonna rape u with cs pom pyro ks bye in 4secs.
Thats it.
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#15 Triumvirate

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 09:38 AM

WTF, someone take away the posting privileges of some of these kids.


FOR EVERYONE SAYING ITS SIMPLE: You're playing mage/rogue teams that belong in the 1700s. Against a good mage/rogue, you WILL NOT WIN.

You either:

A.) Need Hysteria

or

B.) Need AMZ/MoB, plus manage to kill the rogue before your AMS wears off (assuming he doesn't dismantle you during your AMS). Even then, this requires the mage to fail to poly you before the sap wears off, which any good one will not. Otherwise you have to trinket, in which case the rogue can simply blind you.
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#16 Exiztence

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 06:55 PM

This is easy setup for u.
Im playing resto shaman/dk and we'll win almost all dual dps teams.
All ur DK have to do is rush fast to their base and chain the mage, use ams early so mage gets panic and uses frost nova and ure dk is immune cos of ams.
After poison nerfs and as a resto shaman u can dispel wounds from urself easily if the rogue comes on u, u must survive for 20secs or so with the rogue. Ure DK is bursting the mage. Slowed mage cant do anything to you, shaman. IF u see mage comes close to u, start running away or LOS, Also make sure that ur DK grips the mage ONLY AFTER HES BLINK.
If u and ur DK dont do that, theyre gonna rape u with cs pom pyro ks bye in 4secs.
Thats it.

Good joke , I really laughed.
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Tough choice. Not srs. Ill trade poly for scatter trap any day of the week.


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#17 Kubuss

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 07:03 PM

This is easy setup for u.
Im playing resto shaman/dk and we'll win almost all dual dps teams.
All ur DK have to do is rush fast to their base and chain the mage, use ams early so mage gets panic and uses frost nova and ure dk is immune cos of ams.
After poison nerfs and as a resto shaman u can dispel wounds from urself easily if the rogue comes on u, u must survive for 20secs or so with the rogue. Ure DK is bursting the mage. Slowed mage cant do anything to you, shaman. IF u see mage comes close to u, start running away or LOS, Also make sure that ur DK grips the mage ONLY AFTER HES BLINK.
If u and ur DK dont do that, theyre gonna rape u with cs pom pyro ks bye in 4secs.
Thats it.


holy shit LOL
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#18 Eurin

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 08:58 PM

I've actually only played one or two good mage/rogue teams and yes, it is a quick n ez loss. If the mage/rogue are decent at best than it is around a good 70-80% chance to win. Maybe its just the mage/rogue teams i went against but this is not a hard setup for me and my dk to dominate.
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#19 Kubuss

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 09:12 PM

emberstorm
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#20 Eurin

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Posted 03 February 2009 - 09:18 PM

yea but eh wasnt any different on malgaynis
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