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#41 Cooldown

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 09:43 AM

either way, why don't you actually wait for even an anouncement of future nerfs before you start acting like Paladins are doomed?


well to be fair, if he was playing a pally in s1 the same exact thing happened then so im sure hes just being prepared

i, however, am confident paladins will receive no nerfs and only more buffs since blizzard has already shown how competent they are when it comes to fixing things such as arcane mages, deadly brew, ret burst, etc.

good thing they nerfed those fucking warriors though. someone has to be last place and it cant be warlocks after all these years...
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._.

#42 Disstance

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 09:45 AM

a complaint about a set bonus is hardly the same as a complaint about paladins most important moves. troll better if you are going to troll

druid

Kiting was and still is a resto druids most important move.


=/

also lets not start the class war crap, just my opinion.
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#43 Toez

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 09:53 AM

Divine Plea >>>>will get nerfed<<<<, this is no argueing this, I seriously seriously seriously doubt DP remains on a 1 minute 25% max mana CD.

After that's gone, we're just like every class, druids/priests/shamans all have strong instants to keep themselves up once damage is toned down

However those classes have actually offensive utility or CC

paladins have nothing

Holy Shock IS a strong instant now (Riptide isn't, don't know why you included shamans in your little list). Even IF Divine Plea gets it's cooldown increased, that doesn't mean it still won't be great. And if damage ever does get toned down (I'm very doubtful at this point), that means we have to heal-drink again, so it's not like we're gonna run oom really fast.

About offensive utility or CC, freedom (especially), BoP, and HoJ are all offensive utility/cc. You could argue that they are all actually defensive, but if you argue that then you could say the same thing about shocks, cyclone, and psychic scream.

I'm pretty sure pallies will be at the top for a while.
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#44 Missekatten

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 09:55 AM

Pretty dumb to see a Paladin get out played so bad,theyre oom and then 10 seconds later, at like 40% mana. No healer comes close (save a druid, lol druid) in defensive abilities to keep partners up. Pallies do pretty decent burst also a Judge + Holy Shock to finish. Its like a Wrath + Moonfire or a Flame shock/Lava Burst but they dont have to cast.

I would suggest a few things
10 Second CD on Holyshock
Change Divine Plea to 10-15% per minute
Move Divine Purpose further down
make turn evil glpyh 15 sec cd(8 seconds does nothing when it last 9 on a lock)
Holyshock into a .9 second HL that crits for 16k is rather Op also
Nerf Sacred Shield to wayyyy less damage absorbed



10 second CD on one of our only viable dps talents and instant heals? let make a 5 sec cd on wrath and lifebloom.
and 20 sec cd on shaman shocks?. srz thats bia.

Divine plea 10-15% per min. hmm 20% might be rather okay. people seem to forget that it can be dispelled and its hard to buff stack.
1 innervate = 5 pleas. 5 pleas 5 min 1 innervate = 6 min.
so we arent that OP. why are 5 pleas 1 innervate?
because 4 pleas 100% mana. but 100% less heal made. so it goes in 5.

Divine purpose moved down? well if u wanna pigeon hole into Imp Hoj then fine.

Turn evil 15 sec cd. Gotta agree. its still too OP.

is a 16 k holy light OP? try look at the Healing per mana dude.
it crits 16 k because we are meant to be able to top a tank in Raids with it. tanks that can go 54-55k. if u see it in that perspective. we need 16 k crits to heal thoose tanks in single healing in raids. nerfing holy lights would slam hard on PvE.

We went from being the most immobile healer which always got locked out into a more moving class. and i really really enjoy that. good droods can still rape our ass with cyclowns, and if we dont crit shocks. shamans can still interupt us fine.

We are not that overpowered as people make it. we have the most shittiest premtive heals in the game while locked down.

Sacred shield aborbs way too much? 500 dmg + 0,75 absorb per SP point. .. lets see thats....i got around 1850.
thats ca 1387,5 absorb. 1387,5+500 = 1887,5 dmg absorb....

1887,5 dmg absorb in times where people crit for 5-8 k rather easily and frequent.. is that much? i beg to differ.
also. if u hit on the person while he gains the buff. the 50% crit chance extra disapears. and it can be dispelled easily + can only become active every 6 sek.
and do i need to say it costs a rather large chunk of mana.
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#45 Dynimight

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 02:51 PM

After that's gone, we're just like every class, druids/priests/shamans all have strong instants to keep themselves up once damage is toned down

However those classes have actually offensive utility or CC

paladins have nothing


Lmao, you can't seriously be this fucking stupid.
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you're all subconsciously racists. hunters are fine.


#46 Neajane

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 02:55 PM

First part of my post was @ the other pally, the part about holy shock was directed at you, though.


Either way I think you guys are sorta grasping at things to complain about. You expect nerfs and you think they'll somehow ruin the class. Druids felt the same way before and it turned out to be completely unfounded, unless you consider the new Xpac one giant druid nerf.

either way, why don't you actually wait for even an anouncement of future nerfs before you start acting like Paladins are doomed?


Because this is a forum for paladins to discuss paladins

Speculating our own future isn't a topic you'd like us to discuss?

Oh wait, forgot your opinion doesn't mean shit. Go post in the druid forums.

I have -never- said we're doomed again.

I said we're in a bad position for the nerfs to come(if they even come).
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#47 Neajane

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 02:55 PM

Lmao, you can't seriously be this fucking stupid.


Riptide/ES into hasted LHW

Rejuv/Swiftmend/lifebloom stacked

Shield/Renew/ProM

How am I stupid?
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#48 Neajane

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:03 PM

Holy Shock IS a strong instant now (Riptide isn't, don't know why you included shamans in your little list). Even IF Divine Plea gets it's cooldown increased, that doesn't mean it still won't be great. And if damage ever does get toned down (I'm very doubtful at this point), that means we have to heal-drink again, so it's not like we're gonna run oom really fast.

About offensive utility or CC, freedom (especially), BoP, and HoJ are all offensive utility/cc. You could argue that they are all actually defensive, but if you argue that then you could say the same thing about shocks, cyclone, and psychic scream.

I'm pretty sure pallies will be at the top for a while.


Never said holy shock wasn't a strong instant, all I'm saying is when healing classes have actual time to do something outside of healing, Shamans/Priests/Druids help their team MORE and thus their skill cap will continue to rise.

You of all people should know what it was like to control and wittle away a a paladin's cooldowns, seeing as you played RMP on our BG in the early seasons with Opel
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#49 Zeriel

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:08 PM

Paladins needed very quick holy shocks. Without them, if games ever become like they used to, they will once again become a joke because you can just sit on them and prevent them from ever getting a good heal off.
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#50 Dynimight

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:43 PM

Riptide/ES into hasted LHW

Rejuv/Swiftmend/lifebloom stacked

Shield/Renew/ProM

How am I stupid?


Riptide doesn't heal for as much as HS, hot portion is dispellable. ES is dispellable, LHW is casted, not instant...

Swiftmend has 15 second CD and requires rejuv to be on the target, rejuv and lifebloom take 4 globals just to stack and are dispellable. Druids healing effectiveness is absolutely demolished if a DK is on the other team.

Shield, renew, and prom are all dispellable.

And the best part: none of these heal for as much as spamming HS on CD with 50% crit rate leading to instant flash heals or Holy light casts under 1 second. Paladins have the best instant heals in the game.

Cleanse, Freedom, HoP, JoJ, and HoJ are all extremely powerful for offensive utility. Stop being so damn naive.
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you're all subconsciously racists. hunters are fine.


#51 Qwey

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:54 PM

Cleanse, Freedom, HoP, JoJ, and HoJ are all extremely powerful for offensive utility. Stop being so damn naive.


Yeah, they are, but I'd argue its a different sort of offensive utility. Spam purging a priest with a warrior on him is a bit different then giving the warrior freedom and judgement of justicing him, wouldn't you say?

Offensive abilities used on other people so they can be offensive is different then an offensive ability taking away someones defenses...if that makes sense? :/
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#52 georgez

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:55 PM

Riptide doesn't heal for as much as HS, hot portion is dispellable. ES is dispellable, LHW is casted, not instant...

Shield, renew, and prom are all dispellable.


Cleanse, Freedom, HoP, JoJ, and HoJ are all extremely powerful for offensive utility. Stop being so damn naive.


THIS CLASS IS WEAK BECAUSE YOU CAN DISPELL [INSERT MOVE HERE] BUT THIS CLASS IS STRONG BECAUSE OF ALL THE [INSERT DISPELLABLE MOVES HERE] THEY HAVE.
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#53 Vlada

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 03:59 PM

so lifebloom reju swiftmend and NS are not instant casts
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#54 Dynimight

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 07:42 PM

Yeah, they are, but I'd argue its a different sort of offensive utility. Spam purging a priest with a warrior on him is a bit different then giving the warrior freedom and judgement of justicing him, wouldn't you say?


It is different, but does that really make it less effective? What is scarier right now than a mut rogue or DK with Freedom or getting spam cleansed?

so lifebloom reju swiftmend and NS are not instant casts

Pretty sure no one said that. The point is that holy shock + IoL are better than druid hots right now for instant healing. You can't dispel or interrupt holy shock, and for some reason, you can't dispel IoL. Instant heals from other healers either have weaknesses or are straight up inferior.

The fact that any of you are trying to argue that you don't have the best instant heal(s) right now is laughable at best.

Bailou: I play with a holy paladin, and I'm gonna take a guess and say that you've lost to plenty of teams with holy pallies on them :)
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you're all subconsciously racists. hunters are fine.


#55 georgez

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 07:43 PM

only 2155 as h.pally/dk?

you must click
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#56 Dynimight

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 07:45 PM

only 2155 as h.pally/dk?

you must click

Yeah man, top 10 is pretty terrible. I'm not top 5 yet, so I guess I better stop countering your terrible arguments with logic. Good call.
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you're all subconsciously racists. hunters are fine.


#57 Vlada

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 07:45 PM

what if your holy shock(s) doesn't crit vs rogue, WHAT DO YOU DO
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#58 Dynimight

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 07:49 PM

what if your holy shock(s) doesn't crit vs rogue, WHAT DO YOU DO


Cast it again 6 seconds later? Get a peel from your teammate?

I dunno, maybe you just get to die like the other healing classes would :)
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you're all subconsciously racists. hunters are fine.


#59 Vlada

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 07:55 PM

idk you said best instant heals, it is if you are lucky with RNG and every HS crit. You can't compare RNG IoL and 6 sec HS to druid's instants tho you just can't see it because druids just die now
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#60 Magdain

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Posted 22 January 2009 - 07:59 PM

last one i promise.

Ok so first you say a pally can chain cast for 8 minutes against you. Maybe you should kick? good move, then maybe you could apply pressure with all your "best in slot gear". Damn, and with every divine plea dispelled? jesus christ the paladins you face must be incredible in the 1800s. Putting kick/gouge/kidney shot on your bar is a good start, i know you don't use those getting your best in slot epics.

that was the first retarded thing you said.

next you say:

"
dispel can be line of sighted because paladins don't have to maintain a hot stack like a druid."

LOL? is this a serious statement? actually, a paladin has to stay in LOS to heal his partner, so why dont you use your "best in slot" gear and put enough pressure on his partner. Oh yeah, because you suck.

druids were always the ones who would hot their partners up and go LOS to drink while a paladin had to stick around and heal his partner.


sooooooo dumb.


I'm talking about a situation where I'm on a paladin's partner, or I'm switching between them. If you're letting a rogue sit on you as a paladin you're either terrible or your partner is terrible. A paladin doesn't cast when I'm on them because Deadly Brew is laughably dumb. That doesn't change the fact that they'll never oom if they're not downies.


LOL? is this a serious statement? actually, a paladin has to stay in LOS to heal his partner, so why dont you use your "best in slot" gear and put enough pressure on his partner. Oh yeah, because you suck.


Yeah, why don't I do that. OH I KNOW it's because every paladin groups with another plate class with survivability cooldowns. I'll pressure your skilled Feral Druid partner with 45k HP while you get full mana while /dancing

You also have never played a druid, apparently. We're talking about a situation where the opposing team has an offensive magic dispel. Do you know what that means? It means Lifebloom/Rejuv/Regrowth can be dispelled! Hots also have a natural lifetime and need to be reapplied over the course. If you pressure his partner and dispel hots, he has to come into LOS. Holy Shock cannot be dispelled. Innervate is also spread out over a longer duration.


Georgelol, proving he is more fotm than any druid one post at a time.
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