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warriors and paladins suck


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#1 clicker

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 05:20 PM

paladins are boring, h oly shit they are the most boring healer, here are my keys 1.shock 2.shield 3.bop 4.light there's really nothing to it, you can stun once every 30(60)sec. everything a paladin doess is sunshine and smiles you can't hurt anyone. judge hits for 500 still, ?????? My Sources At BLizzard indicate plea is getting nurfed big time so uhhh what good are paladins after bop and shield are gone. everyone making balance "suggestions" is really just whining that paladins have their time in the sun. take away our one trick and give us no treats, or the game will gradually develop on its own and classes will evolve w/o interference of major nerfs. paladins were declining in season 1 anyway, ppl figured out they could be interrupted (after talisman of breaker & original concaura got fixed) and got fucked by tongues. paladins weren't so hot anyway, it was the warrior getting buck with enrage+dw+freedom with paladin shielded for those mere 12 seconds which was enough to end. then illumination, freedom and so on get nerfed, paladins turn out to be shit in everything but 5s s2, may as well not have existed past that. prot still doesn't have an 11 point ability, what the fuck?

warriors, man what a shittily designed class. for all of tbc, mortal strike was the staple ability because it's just too fucking good. best damage move? check, and it has a 50% healing reduction with a 6 second cooldown. so bliz figures they'll mix it up by giving fury an MS effect. well now what's the bloody point of arms? there's 2 things in arms now, bladestorm(sucks dick because it's bugged and damage isn't so hot anyway) and suddendeath, which is getting nerfed. fury has twice the damage and better mobility (get hit by one of a million mage roots? cool free intercept), plus the extra stats of another 2h, more crit, and so on. lots of warrior abilities are outdated or forgotten

thunderclap - does nothing against specials, the majority of damage in pvp. thunderclap is a waste of rage and time

heroic strike - costs rage, don't generate rage via hs. there is zero purpose in HS: it's effectively a 45 rage cost for 400 damage. SUCKS DICK. should do 150% damage vs. shielded targets or so on, i don't know

battle stance - WHY? if you're in battle, you lose 3% crit and gain nothing. okay, overpower. but lose pummel, intercept, whirlwind and the rage required to swap. battle should be combined with berserker to make 2 stances, Offense and Defense, because there may as well only be 2 as it is. additionally, the overpower-on-rend-ticks shit in arms is worthless because of pvp's utter reliance on berserker stance

whelp
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#2 Vigaut

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 05:44 PM

everything's gonna be alright. :P
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#3 Magdain

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 05:48 PM

you'd have to be delusional not to see that holy paladins are out of line. as of right now (compared to every other healer) they have the best longevity, best survivability, and best hps. they're also high up on the list of good utility and good mobility, but not quite best.
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#4 Vigaut

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 05:56 PM

you'd have to be delusional not to see that holy paladins are out of line. as of right now (compared to every other healer) they have the best longevity, best survivability, and best hps. they're also high up on the list of good utility and good mobility, but not quite best.


You're right, as it stands we're a solid class. Since the dispel nerfs, we're even stronger since we don't spend 6+ tries taking off debuffs. However, it'll be a while before holy shock is put on an 8 or 10 sec CD, or the coefficient for sacred shield is nerfed, or 60% dispel resist on Hand spells, or 30% from talents and 10% from meta stun duration reduction, or any of the other things that make us strong, are nerfed or taken away.

On a side note Magdain, I feel for rogues =[, I haven't been playing DP lately and in duels I can sit in stuns with sacred shield on and be alright. Between putting freedom on myself and a lil RNG i can cleanse wound & holy shock & never have to actually cast a heal. This is a recent development and the rogues I've been fighting are good, but not the best.

If things stay as they are plds will be the druids of previous seasons: powerful and unnerfed for a long time.
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#5 Nn

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 06:00 PM

paladins are a single trick class. they offer no versatility what so ever.
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Nn

#6 Top

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 06:03 PM

it's ok xarrio paladins will get nerfed about the time origins comes out

woooooo
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#7 puresin

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 06:15 PM

Find another paladin and do holy/ret, it's the comp of the future.
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#8 Ocius

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 06:47 PM

Funny thing is if you remove bubble, Paladins are basically in line with every other healer. Our survivability is what makes us "out of line" right now. Given the defensive nature of a Paladin's playstyle, we frankly should have the most longevity of the healers. Our CC is shit compared to Druids and our offensive utility is shit compared to Priests/Shamans. Freedom/Divine Purpose and Cleanse is our staple utility -- they're pretty much our ONLY utility. Other than that, we have one stun on a 60 second cooldown (30s if you don't go for DP).

If other healers could survive well enough for their utility to become a significant part of the game again -- i.e. Mana Burn, Cyclone/Roots/Mobility, Shocks/Totems/Mobility (admittedly the 40 yard range Justice makes Paladins pretty much a hard counter to Shaman/Druid mobility) -- then Paladin longevity really wouldn't be as huge of an issue. Priests can keep up with our mana in 2s as Priest/Rogue or Priest/Feral fairly well as it is if they get a couple burns off. The problem is Priests die so fast with a decent Stun/Silence chain on them it really doesn't matter most of the time.

Again, Paladins SHOULD be the defensive healer. If you take away our defensive advantages (particularly our longevity), what will happen to Paladins as the game progresses and damage is more reasonable for other healers? When Priests can start really burning again, Druids can afford to drop Tree to throw some real CCs, Shamans can survive stuns/silences at all, etc, what will Paladins have then? It'd be back to S2-S4, but with Holy Shock->Instant FoL being our big gimmick. That's basically all we do anyway, but at least we have the mana to back it up. That and stun every 30 seconds. The class isn't exactly rocket science. Hell, the only reason I leveled my Paladin first is because I knew my Druid would just get shit on by DKs and my Priest isn't Dwarf. I'm already leveling my Druid again for next season because Paladins are really only "fun" because they're the only healer that can't be shut down 'til death with only a trinket to save you. Priests/Druids/Shamans can be Silenced/Stunned/etc during the <8 seconds it takes to kill them with 2+ DPS on them. Paladins have bubble for those Silence/Stun cooldowns, then Shock/FoL/SS to keep them alive outside the interrupts (plus if their teammates aren't retarded plenty of other options after the cooldown zerg on the healer). The problem is that offensive cooldowns out-strip defensive cooldowns for basically every non-Paladin healer. And Holy Shock->Instant FoL is probably too strong (the only thing keeping me from saying it's definitely overpowered is that it's based on RNG).

Ya I'm not bitter at all :x

P.S. Nerf Shock->FoL and maybe bubble and give us some real utility other than cleanse spam/Freedom every 25s and then our longevity might actually be a problem in the long-term.
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#9 Magdain

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 07:05 PM

Priests can keep up with our mana in 2s


what



no. not even with burns.


paladins becoming more versatile and with a higher skill cap is fine, that would be a very positive thing. their lack of both of those things though doesn't justify their complete inability to ever drop below 80% mana, complete inability to actually kill their partner if they do nothing but spam holy shock on cooldown, and it being generally difficult (but not always) to kill them if they have vigilant peeling.
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#10 Cruxis

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 07:09 PM

our offensive utility is shit compared to Priests/Shamans.


You have no offensive power when you're dead.

Oh and I agree with what you said about Warriors, why anyone would take one to Arena right now is mind-boggling.
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Honestly it doesnt matter what people think of me. I make money playing this game, and soon to be a world champion. stop us if u can.


Salute to the World Champion.

#11 Ocius

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 07:22 PM

What experience are you drawing from that actually justifies your claim that Paladins never run OoM ever? Because yes, Priests can keep up with our mana with Burns in 2s. Divine Plea is dispellable, and with a DP spec you don't have dispel resist. Then again, the only team that's been capable of keeping up with my mana so far has been the top Priest/Feral in the BG (aka Innervate + Spirit trinket) and good Rogue/Priests. But that's also because I run with a DK, and Priest/Rogue has a ton of control over that matchup if they have a clue. Note that I also qualified my statement with the "fairly well" clause. Paladins' mana does last too long. But nerfing it to an extreme is not the answer. Minor tweaks to Divine Plea while waiting to see if some burst damage changes help out the other healers is a better option.

You have no offensive power when you're dead.


Wasn't that basically the whole point of my post? Paladins are extremely powerful because no other healers' survivability can even remotely come close to rivaling ours. Crit Holy Shock->FoL is by far the strongest "emergency" heal in the game, and it has a 50% chance to occur every 6 seconds. Combine that with bubble and you have an absurdly durable healer, even in the face of over-the-top burst.
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#12 Magdain

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 07:46 PM

What experience are you drawing from that actually justifies your claim that Paladins never run OoM ever? Because yes, Priests can keep up with our mana with Burns in 2s. Divine Plea is dispellable, and with a DP spec you don't have dispel resist. Then again, the only team that's been capable of keeping up with my mana so far has been the top Priest/Feral in the BG (aka Innervate + Spirit trinket) and good Rogue/Priests. But that's also because I run with a DK, and Priest/Rogue has a ton of control over that matchup if they have a clue. Note that I also qualified my statement with the "fairly well" clause. Paladins' mana does last too long. But nerfing it to an extreme is not the answer. Minor tweaks to Divine Plea while waiting to see if some burst damage changes help out the other healers is a better option.


the fact that my blue geared paladin can't run oom ever and that it takes me as a best in slot pve geared rogue 8 minutes to oom a chain casting paladin when every plea is dispelled. your expectations are unrealistic. a priest getting off burns (even ignoring the fact that it's difficult for priests to do anything besides jump in circles spamming instants and praying) is unrealistic in every arena except org.

dispel can be line of sighted because paladins don't have to maintain a hot stack like a druid. under a worst case scenario a paladin can get 6 guaranteed seconds of a plea with a ridiculously short cooldown. that is more than enough to have a near nil mana deficit.
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#13 Dynimight

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:04 PM

My paladin has gone oom against a priest once... vs. feral druid/priest where the priest got a full reset on mana with innervate + spirit trinket, and we were playing on ring of valor so there were no pillars up to LOS dispel against a few divine pleas. He also ate like 6 or 7 mana burns. The priest was still almost oom when my pally finally ran oom.

Priets cannot keep up with paladins under normal circumstances. I agree with much of what you said (especially about HS + IoL being way too strong), but this just isn't accurate.
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you're all subconsciously racists. hunters are fine.


#14 tysopz

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:23 PM

unpeeled rogue on paladin = dead paladin
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#15 Dynimight

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:54 PM

unpeeled rogue on paladin = dead paladin


as opposed to any other healer? lol
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you're all subconsciously racists. hunters are fine.


#16 georgez

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 08:57 PM

who cares dude go get a 3,000 personal like everybody else
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#17 Alkazard

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 10:15 PM

and that it takes me as a best in slot pve geared rogue 8 minutes to oom a chain casting paladin when every plea is dispelled.


Yeah, yeah, no.

If you go toe to toe with a non-MS class, you'll not only put out more damage to heal through, but it has to be doubled because you have a 100% time MS debuff on the target. If you sat on a target and the paladin didn't OOM in 8 minutes without him being able to use plea, you're doing something very wrong.

But here's to a testimony that divine plea isn't overpowered and doesn't need a nerf!
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#18 Magdain

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:16 PM

Yeah, yeah, no.

If you go toe to toe with a non-MS class, you'll not only put out more damage to heal through, but it has to be doubled because you have a 100% time MS debuff on the target. If you sat on a target and the paladin didn't OOM in 8 minutes without him being able to use plea, you're doing something very wrong.

But here's to a testimony that divine plea isn't overpowered and doesn't need a nerf!


casting flash of light is very mana intensive
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#19 clicker

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:22 PM

a paladin did not cast flash of light against a rogue for 8 minuets

hahaah what

can we get back to the original post please
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#20 rkz

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Posted 21 January 2009 - 11:42 PM

What experience are you drawing from that actually justifies your claim that Paladins never run OoM ever? Because yes, Priests can keep up with our mana with Burns in 2s.


Fought a dk paladin in nagrand pre patch. burned paladin 4 or so times/drank literally 21 times(ran out of water)/ had a rogue partner applying MS which was healed through. Paladin didn't drink once and didn't go OOM, I did. They were terrible players too. You're nuts if you think priests mana can keep up with a paladins.
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