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Vile Poisons nerf


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#41 Zolz

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 04:16 PM

Emerâld didn't know retards could post on AJ. I hope you're being sarcastic
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#42

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 04:17 PM

parts of it is sensible, but saying our snare and healing debuff is the best is a lie.

What I dont understand is

why shouldnt it be?

I agree also having CoT up by default is dumb as hell, but a snare and a healing debuff when we are on our target sounds fair to me.


Right now I'd say that they *are* the best snare/healing debuff because they require no effort to put up, and are extremely difficult to dispel (largely because we don't have enough GCDs, especially if they fail)

I play a rogue right now too, and you'd have to be completely biased to say that -right now- poison application rate isn't too high, and dispel resist is definitely broken.

I'd say in BC rogue poisons were pretty decent, maybe they needed a small buff in terms of application, but right now you don't even really need to use shiv to keep up all your poisons up :/

Hi zolz :)
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#43 Megalomaniac

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 04:17 PM

The way you "dispel" it is through CC on the rogue. When arenas actually last longer then 20 seconds mut rogues will run out of cooldowns and have absolutely no way of catching up to targets. Not to mention that not every rogue has deadly brew, what will happen to those specs.
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#44 Zolz

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 04:18 PM

I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic if not. I don't know what to say.
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#45 mirag

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 04:19 PM

The change to vile poison is fine but any nerf to proc rate will make rogue poisons just as shity as they where in TBC if you doent got deadly brew.

Poisons where not fine in TBC 1 abolish was enoth to not let you get any wound up and you had to spend all your energy at spamming shiv and crippling was still of more than what it was on.

50% procrate is fine.
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#46 Zolz

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 04:23 PM

The change to vile poison is fine but any nerf to proc rate will make rogue poisons just as shity as they where in TBC if you doent got deadly brew.

Poisons where not fine in TBC 1 abolish was enoth to not let you get any wound up and you had to spend all your energy at spamming shiv and crippling was still of more than what it was on.

50% procrate is fine.



good "ROGUES" in TBC could keep up wound. understandable the average rogue having issues.
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#47

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 04:24 PM

Female dwarf rogues had np keepin up poisons :) all about the boar's tails
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#48 mirag

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 05:08 PM

good "ROGUES" in TBC could keep up wound. understandable the average rogue having issues.


Not at the same time as crippling against druids.

Especialy not if you dident switch offhand evory other global reseting your swingtimer all the time witch turned your white dmg to shit and white dmg was almost evorything you had since shivs does shit dmg.

And no slice and dice was noth enoth.
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#49 Dynimight

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 06:06 PM

Pretty damn sure rogue poison mechanics were 100% fine in BC. The problem was with druids, not rogues. Even with how powerful druids were, rogues were a top tier class, so I'm not understanding all the bitching.

50% proc rate on poisons is not fine. Deadly Brew is not fine. This thread makes me sad :(
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you're all subconsciously racists. hunters are fine.


#50 mirag

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 07:00 PM

Pretty damn sure rogue poison mechanics were 100% fine in BC. The problem was with druids, not rogues. Even with how powerful druids were, rogues were a top tier class, so I'm not understanding all the bitching.

50% proc rate on poisons is not fine. Deadly Brew is not fine. This thread makes me sad :(



Ablish poison has not ben nerfed instead they chosed to rape the class in other areas witch alot of them wherent needed.

A shadowstep rogue in TBC had 30% procrate on poisons and 40% dispellresists on poison and still rogue poisons got compleatly butraped by ablish poison.
What do you think will happen if they remove the dispell resist AND nerf the procrate?
Rogue poisons will than be worse than they where in TBC and they where already bad enoth back than.

Removing vile poison is enoth of a poison nerf to poisons for a shadowstep rogue.
50% procrate is fine, vile poison nerf is fine.

Nerfing deadly brew or not is a different matter i kinda agree its to strong atm but i think mutilate rogues will sort them self out once there have ben an overall nerf to dmg.

Honestly its not me who biatch about rogue poisons its you.
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#51 Grombringal

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 07:05 PM

Rogues were more than fine in TBC, stop bitching.
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#52 Dynimight

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 07:14 PM

Honestly its not me who biatch about rogue poisons its you.


No, I'm pretty sure you're still "biatch"ing and still wrong.

Rogues and poisons were more than fine in TBC when druids were OP as hell. Druids are now not even close to OP, so the abolish argument is especially weak.

Perhaps we should just add 50%+ cast speed and the MS effect to hamstring and call it a day!
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you're all subconsciously racists. hunters are fine.


#53 Billz

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 07:26 PM

Shift the points to ruthlessness now.

Its about time they made ruthlessness 100% at 3 points though, someone should go start a super long thread in the damage dealers forum about it.


in my opinion ruthlessness isnt that big at all compared to vile poisons, honestly i rather have deadly poison on so that way healers maybe have more trouble dispelling and bigger dmg output i guess.
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#54 Rice

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 07:26 PM

Anyone who thinks deadly brew and current poison proc rates together at the same time is fine has lost their goddamn marbles.
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#55 Billz

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 07:28 PM

Why shouldn't mutilate rogues have the "best snare" in the game (even though it really isn't) when we have the worst mobility of any melee class.

The penalty for our poisons having such low resources / time to put up is the fact that 3/4 healers can remove it. What is so hard to understand about this? I would gladly trade crip poison procs on autoattacks for an undispellable snare any day of the week.

Mutilate rogues will be completely worthless 30 seconds into an arena match now and all other specs will be worthless (outside of gib comps) once the gates open. The longer that arena matches go the weaker rogues will become and we are already near the bottom of representation in the SK top 100 with matches lasting 10 seconds. Go figure.


please read.
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#56 mirag

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 08:03 PM

Anyone who thinks deadly brew and current poison proc rates together at the same time is fine has lost their goddamn marbles.


Anyone who thinks current poison proc rates without vile or deadly brew is overpowered has lost their goddamn marbles.
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#57 Craton

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 08:40 PM

Well this thread is swirling the drain fast. People keep bringing up arguments that have already been had earlier in the thread.

Suffice to say that the bulk of the community is firmly behind this change and it is going through. You may not like it, but nobody likes having their abilities become less overpowered.
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#58 wmd221

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 08:54 PM

I think the change is pretty much necessary with the way mutilate is atm, its a pretty huge nerf to combat ( lol ) and shadow dance though, I think they should've really found a different way to get about this. Like I said I agree with the mutilate nerf, it'll be impossible to keep poisons up as shd however.
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#59 Magdain

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 09:27 PM

Right now I'd say that they *are* the best snare/healing debuff because they require no effort to put up, and are extremely difficult to dispel (largely because we don't have enough GCDs, especially if they fail)

I play a rogue right now too, and you'd have to be completely biased to say that -right now- poison application rate isn't too high, and dispel resist is definitely broken.

I'd say in BC rogue poisons were pretty decent, maybe they needed a small buff in terms of application, but right now you don't even really need to use shiv to keep up all your poisons up :/

Hi zolz :)



Offensive dispels and CC dispels are completely broken. That doesn't justify making Vile Poisons a ridiculously shitty talent and making mutilate even more mandatory than it is.

Poison removal should be a viable tactic. Right now it isn't. The proper way to change it is testing new proc rates, maybe reconsidering stacking but less than 5, and changing deadly brew so that it's not a complete joke.

Does anybody seriously think it's fair for shadowstep to have 0% poison protection and only two poisons up on a target (swaps are possible but is far from 100% uptime for dispel protection)?
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#60

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Posted 09 January 2009 - 09:36 PM

Offensive dispels and CC dispels are completely broken. That doesn't justify making Vile Poisons a ridiculously shitty talent and making mutilate even more mandatory than it is.

Poison removal should be a viable tactic. Right now it isn't. The proper way to change it is testing new proc rates, maybe reconsidering stacking but less than 5, and changing deadly brew so that it's not a complete joke.

Does anybody seriously think it's fair for shadowstep to have 0% poison protection and only two poisons up on a target (swaps are possible but is far from 100% uptime for dispel protection)?

We'll have to see how the game changes after dispel changes are put in.
Baby steps :)
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