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[Mage/Rogue] rogue+mage vs. holy pally/dk


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#21 Kwee

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Posted 10 January 2009 - 10:23 PM

Or you can use the Xfire ingame live stream, that works. But I'm not 100% sure if you can save your clips. If I do and record something I'll get back to you. :)


Thanks :D I'm not fond of streams - I've been meaning to catch at least one of Affix's and have missed every single one. :/

I'm frost spec again now, I hated arcane. The only thing I don't like about frost, is dealing with arcane mages or hunters.
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#22 Jarui

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 01:03 AM

Myeah, forgot to fraps the few games we did earlier. It was shit though, +10 -24 -22 -20 -18.

>_>

I'll record tomorrow/later tonight. :P
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#23 Kwee

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 07:48 AM

my god that really sucks :|

what teams was it to? holy/unholy? :(
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#24 Kwee

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Posted 11 January 2009 - 11:22 PM

Ok I have another question... how do I cast frostbolt in any type of PvP environment? It is impossible to get a 2.5 second cast off and our PvP gear doesn't have haste. I need it to be at least 2 seconds, preferrably 1.5.

There is no way they will let me stand there casting for 2.5 seconds just to do 2.2k damage. Even if they don't interrupt me, they just LOS.
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#25 belzaar

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 02:14 AM

Ok I have another question... how do I cast frostbolt in any type of PvP environment? It is impossible to get a 2.5 second cast off and our PvP gear doesn't have haste. I need it to be at least 2 seconds, preferrably 1.5.

There is no way they will let me stand there casting for 2.5 seconds just to do 2.2k damage. Even if they don't interrupt me, they just LOS.


haste gems, IV, and you're frost, you have to be able to kite someone to at least cast a sheep off then unload. Also, in arena, you can communicate with your rogue about stunning the other player just right after you cc the other opponent and do a shatter combo.
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#26 Kwee

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 03:37 AM

haste gems, IV, and you're frost, you have to be able to kite someone to at least cast a sheep off then unload. Also, in arena, you can communicate with your rogue about stunning the other player just right after you cc the other opponent and do a shatter combo.


I put my heroes' frostfire leggings on, annhylde's ring instead of hateful ring, and switched out more gems for haste...

Now I'm 251 haste (2.32 second frostbolts). Still not good enough :/ 1.94 with IV

Unfortunately now my SP is only 1586 and spell pen is 55.
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#27 Stefz

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 01:38 PM

On topic: the sap is absolutely crucial for you guys to win. When I was playing with my mage friend we faced the top dk/holy team on our bg on only seemed to win when I got a sap on the DK right before opening on the pala. Also have your rogue use garrote as his opener if possible, because the pala will more than likely be 49/0/22 spec and cheap shot shares dr with deep freeze. If you coordinate well you should be able to force the bubble before the dk is out of sap, then its just a matter of your rogue getting away and restealthing and you kiting/attempting to go invis to reset the fight.
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#28

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Posted 12 January 2009 - 01:58 PM

best racial and class
ah yep
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#29 Kwee

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 12:02 AM

On topic: the sap is absolutely crucial for you guys to win. When I was playing with my mage friend we faced the top dk/holy team on our bg on only seemed to win when I got a sap on the DK right before opening on the pala. Also have your rogue use garrote as his opener if possible, because the pala will more than likely be 49/0/22 spec and cheap shot shares dr with deep freeze. If you coordinate well you should be able to force the bubble before the dk is out of sap, then its just a matter of your rogue getting away and restealthing and you kiting/attempting to go invis to reset the fight.


We can't reset the fight, ghoul doesn't lose pathing on the rogue when he vanishes (just runs over and gnaws him out of it), and the DK will just AMShell so I can't get away from him to invis, then he'll drop death and decay on us and kill us both 100-0 while we're perma fear locked in it.

Thanks for the garrote tip though, would of sucked to learn that the hard way.

Me and my rogue have been clearing naxx every single week for past few weeks and still neither of us have seen our weapons drop, let alone actually winning them. And I'm noticing every single mage/rogue playing over 1900 has at least a 150 dps dagger. Going from steady talasite to a 143 dps would make his muts hit for 3.5k, instead of 2k.
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#30 Arikuneric

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 12:20 AM

TBH your best bet is to sap the dk and start on the pally. Once the dk either trinkets out of sap or just sits through it sheep him after wards with all the pressure on the pally it will be a pain for him to cleanse the dk. At around this time the pally should have already bubbled all the rogue and you have to do is reset the fight. Vanish + Invis once the bubble is down sap and repeat this time blowing your cooldowns.
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#31 Kwee

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 12:34 AM

I've got one major concern, the strat we covered at the start of this thread (which people keep repeating, which isn't a problem, just means it's the right one) is that when I go to polymorph the DK he will anti magic shell. We can't afford 10 seconds (or is it 8?) or complete immunity.

It's nice how DKs have a divine shield on 45 second CD vs. casters...

Of course it would take a smart DK to not AMS when we are switching to him and save it for the poly. Still...

But like I said, we've been losing because we try to reset the fight. It doesn't work with permafear (dnd) and ghouls not losing pathing after vanish/etc. And with all the crap a DK has, it's impossible to start kiting him at least until the paladin's bubble has been down for 5 seconds... :/
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#32 Arikuneric

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 07:21 AM

have you tried to sheep while he is still in the sap?

that way he cant AMS

btw AMS is 5 seconds with a min cooldown. If glyphed 7 seconds and 1.25 min cooldown.
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#33 Complex

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 09:32 AM

And I'm noticing every single mage/rogue playing over 1900 has at least a 150 dps dagger. Going from steady talasite to a 143 dps would make his muts hit for 3.5k, instead of 2k.

Your Rogue is using a resilience/stamina gem as a dagger?

Joking aside, I'm assuming you meant Broken Stalactite, and if so, I can assure you that going from a 130DPS Dagger to a 143DPS one does not result in a 175% damage increase on your partner's mutilates.
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#34 Kwee

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 09:38 AM

Your Rogue is using a resilience/stamina gem as a dagger?

Joking aside, I'm assuming you meant Broken Stalactite, and if so, I can assure you that going from a 130DPS Dagger to a 143DPS one does not result in a 175% damage increase on your partner's mutilates.


It makes a big enough difference from what I've been told... going from stalactite to naxx daggers. :/

I'm not saying we are losing due to his daggers, we both agree we have to work on our strat and play better, but we also think if he can get better weapons it will help us execute our strats far better and prevent fails that are due solely to 'almost' having enough burst. So don't get me wrong, I'm not saying our fail is gear based.

Except when we lost to a ret paladin with betrayer of humanity. That totally fken was -.-

Going to try and get back into 2s tomorrow, had over a week off and trashed the rating to get a friend points. We reached 1705 with much worse gear a cpl of weeks ago, so hoping we do alright now - we've discussed strats, I've improved some gear pieces. And gone back to frost.

Also instead of just nuking, we're playing defensively at the start after our initial burst, if they survive it they always go offensive and blow everything, so we kite/cc through that, try to heal up, and re-open. <- a result of now being frost, not arcane. Arcane was epic fail (not in terms of results, in terms of the zero skill cap and boredom).
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#35 Dynimight

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Posted 13 January 2009 - 03:17 PM

have you tried to sheep while he is still in the sap?

that way he cant AMS

btw AMS is 5 seconds with a min cooldown. If glyphed 7 seconds and 1.25 min cooldown.


Small correction here: 5 sec with 45 sec CD. Glyphed = 10 sec with 1 min CD, 7 sec with 45 sec CD after patch.
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you're all subconsciously racists. hunters are fine.


#36 Arikuneric

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 01:39 AM

Small correction here: 5 sec with 45 sec CD. Glyphed = 10 sec with 1 min CD, 7 sec with 45 sec CD after patch.


ah thank you i personally havent used the glyph so i was going with patch notes on the glyph and i assumed that it was 2 seconds longer and a 15 sec cooldown on live.
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#37 Kwee

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 02:53 AM

Hm no one frapsing any of these fights? :(
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#38 Kwee

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 03:30 AM

Ok so we fought 2 DK, they both dropped death and decay on us and we lost without the fear coming off.

Even when the game was over, I was still getting spam feared.

Couldn't ice block it, couldn't trinket and blink. Just... died. Rogue was clos'd, did nothing.
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#39 Kwee

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 03:35 AM

Lost to them again, they were both in ghoul form, but I couldn't evocate with 2 ghouls, 2 gargoyles, and 2 ghoul pets on me and my invis was down. And I was getting hit REALLY hard. Survived so long that one DK died from time, one who's ghoul form I already killed and he just got risen again...

The other one used shadow sight.

Hilarious work there blizzard. 6v2.


Edit: Lost again to ret paladin/DK, killed the ret paladin but then our HP was too low so the gargoyle 2 shot me + 1 hit from the ghoul... when I had 4k HP left and an IB up.


Edit 2: funny, we finally fight a real team (disc/rogue) and we win zero problems.
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#40 Quantity

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Posted 14 January 2009 - 06:34 AM

No way you fight a team you counter and you win? AMAZING BRO!
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