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[Blizzard] Arena Damage - Blizzard Feedback


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#41 Levidian

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 04:42 PM

make it 25% cap? 50% less damage is just way too much, also with 25% less healing spells like sacred shield and PWS will be sick, warriors won't get any rage at all vs paladins/priests (not like they are getting now :P)


The best suggestion I've seen is to make the raw damage reduction = to the crit change reduction

so if you have enough resil right now for neg 10% crit you would also have enough resil for neg 10% total damage.
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#42 Dispelled

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 04:52 PM

IMO if u have raw dmg reduction, then PvP gear could POSSIBLY be used for PvE tanking...?
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#43 Thejuice

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 04:59 PM

I think it's pretty clear that reducing overall damage will still make classes such as rogues and death knights ahead of other classes dps. This would just make classes with lower damage even more useless than they already are in arena. This isn't an easy thing to fix and specific spells/attacks should be nerfed as opposed to every class regardless of whether or not they suck. And btw stop QQ'ing about mirror image being OP because it can easily cause a loss by hitting targets out of cc or ccing targets you're trying to burst down, healing them up
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#44 Awsume

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 05:22 PM

I Think Haste Should be unaffectable in Arena, I personally feel that haste stacking Healers atm, are the reason healing is so off the wall. Holy lights in 1.5 is kind of rediculous, and lesser healing wave / flashs, you can hardly interrupt even more even if your hovering + waiting for it.

I Also think that Shields / Dmg output / Healing / Should all get a 20% Base Nerf before resillence in Arena.

I Feel however that in normal Battlegrounds + World pvp things should be how they are at the moment.

I Did like pre bc more, and this really is playing like the feel of it. The only issue im having is arena is a brainless waist of time at the moment and its killing this game quickly.

I Think that a 20% Base Nerf to all spells that can be nerfed (IE, Charge interrcept + Sheeps c/c's and stuff are fine) Im talking the Healing / DMG / Shielding spells. Would Fix alot of the problems

I Think once resillence comes into play if the damage doesnt change it wouldnt even affect arena. I Know that a Well geared rogue at the moment, can Ambush for 10-12k On Cloth Even after the resil cap dmg reduction, It only changed that to about 8k which is still obviously to high,

And im not picking on rogues and i dont think they themselves need a nerf, there horrible in pve unless there evis spec'd at the moment.

Im talking that burst in general is out of hand.
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-Bind keys.
-Pick up keyboard.

OLOL SMACK IT TO THE WALL YES HARDER OH MY GOD FASTER YOUR DOING IT

When target gets on 30% start smacking it to your head. Don't forget to use the nose.


#45 Kotlol

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 05:31 PM

remove the hunter class
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#46 Superior

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 05:34 PM

If Blizzard are ready to put down some time on pvp, you could make dual definitions for spells. One vs mob and one vs players. This has the potential of a HUUGE increase in fine tuning available.
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#47 Pirated

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 05:57 PM

I just want to note that mirror image is NOT bad. Yes, it's not going to confuse competent players who are used to it, but it does one important thing, which is to clear the mage from everyone's focus. Very good for setting up burst to avoid focus interrupts.

I think the bottom line is that this game doesn't work with PvE/PvP, and frankly, gear in arena should be standardized.

There is absolutely no reason why gear advantage should exist in a competitive environment, and it has always caused the biggest balance problems. If this first week has shown anything, it's that arena is COMPLETELY fucked with no resilience. I'm not saying resilience will fix it, but you're crazy if you don't think PvP gear would have made the game less insane in the last week.

Let people unlock the gear for use outside arena using arena points. Also add random crap that people would care about with rating reqs like tabards, mounts, etc

Seriously, this would make arena so much better, it's amazing.
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#48 Exiledshmoo

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 06:01 PM

I had a similar thread stating the core cause of these issues.

http://www.arenajunk...ead.php?t=54746

Basically the classes that are doing well are those with both high burst and the ability to negate a lot of damage for short periods.

Mages, DKS, Paladins, Rogues, and BM Hunters.

Think back to the end of s2 and start of s3. Warlocks were super tanks, they did not have much choice in the matter, but they took steady and manageable damage. Mages on the other hand either took no damage or spiked hard.

Mages are still the same, they either take no damage or spike hard, the issue is the game does not go on long enough to get past all of their cooldowns and start doing damage to them.

Now in regards to have a pvp buff or something, Blizzard has in the past stated that they will not do this, true they have changed a lot of things, and this could be one of them.

There is no easy solution to this, because you have to keep S6 and S7 in mind when you make huge changes like game wide damage nerfs and changes to core mechanics.

As many of you saw throughout BC, you saw more and more control/drain comps as the seasons progressed. Yes Mage/Rogue, RMP, and 2345 remained good comps. You also know that Restokin/Rogue, D/W/W, EURO and many others came to dominate at the end of s3 and s4.

Yes it is true that damage is much higher that in BC in relation to health pools, it is important though to understand what happens as stam and resilience scale.

Now as one of the early posts state, before you can fix the problem, you have to know what the problem is and what fixed actually means.
So we know what the problems are, and what those core causes are.
So the next step is going to be to define what is "fixed."
ATM dps classes can kill you before you can fight back, even if you trinket asap and pop defensive cooldowns, you will die with assistance from your partner. Now that seems fine, until you take into account thats 1v1. One UDk will solo a healer. One rogue will solo a healer.
Well if that healer got caught with his pants down, thats one thing. If the healer dies while he is playing conservative, hots up and in a good position, well then thats wrong.

In a one on one situation, a DPS should not be able to just kill a healer. If the healer plays well, they should go oom before thy die 1v1 against a single dps. Well atm, MS effects and going oom are long forgotten aspects of pvp. MS effects are not an issue because you go from full to dead during a cc.
One thing to consider though is do we want to go back to a world of MS. Pretty much every 3's and 5s team had an MS, and almost every 2's team had an ms. The funny thing is out of the 5 op classes atm, only 2 of them have an ms effect!

Well thats enough rambling. The best solution is going to be buffing and tweaking resilience and stam as we go to keep things balanced. Balanced should be defined as the game not being determined by the first 10 seconds. Cooldowns should be used strategically, not spammed at the start
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#49 Chumps

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 06:05 PM

Personally I see 2 main reasons why damage is out of control in arenas right now:

1) HP pools are too small to compensate for the large potential burst dmg i.e (Mutilate > Mutilate > Cold Blood eviscerate) pretty much takes about 80% of anyones HP, and from that position, its extremely hard to recover. People don't need to set up gibs anymore, theres no more CC the healer and kill a target, its pretty much just kill a target and lol at the healer trying to heal through it.

2) Healing has not scaled well enough to be able to heal through the insane dmg. Having to spam your largest fastest heal non-stop to keep a target up is fine for pve, but not for pvp, especially when there are so many ways to ruin a healers day. From the arena's I have played thus far, I have encountered many times where I have had to spam my best heal in order to keep a target up, for around 10-15 seconds, this is just not what arena is supposed to be about, especially when a silence or counterspell or deathcoil (you get my point), can easily interupt this heal spam and cause a target to die.

Fixes to this?

I think possibly making it so resilience also increases HP pools in a PVP setting may be a good idea, this would also help to even the playing ground for pvp, as pve gear would not be as viable without the HP increase.

I also believe if you make resilience increase healing taken by x amount it may be a good idea, I have noticed in Wintersgrasp, while only having around 1-2 stacks of tenacity makes it so much easier from a healing perspective to keep yourself and your targets up.

These are just things I have noticed while playing arenas.
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#50 Pirated

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 06:07 PM

standardize gear in arenas...

so frustrating that this hasn't been done by now
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#51 Zumut

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 06:32 PM

My suggestion would simply be to change resilience that way:

Example: Reduces chance to be crit by 10%
Reduces all damage taken in PvP by 20%

So that way not only crit damage is reduced by resilience, but all damage. It would increase the need for PvP gear in PvP also...
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#52 Zumut

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 06:37 PM

standardize gear in arenas...

so frustrating that this hasn't been done by now


This is something I've always been against.

This is not an FPS, it is an MMORPG, which involves gearing your character.

What would be the point to compete in arena if the gear you earn cannot be used to get better?

Indeed, a lot of the people on arena junkies have played tournament realms and have enjoyed the gear normalization, but wouldn't it be sad to have a full deadly set, including all pieces you farmed through honor, usable only in Dalaran and in PvE?
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#53 Iisindria

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 06:39 PM

Make Resilience affect all damage done in PvP. Crits, non-crits, Dots, etc. Not much of a Theorycrafter so that'll be my 2 cents, I suppose.
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#54 KennyEU

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 06:59 PM

standardize gear in arenas...

so frustrating that this hasn't been done by now


Yep, this doesn't even need to be discussed for people who are competitive minded, in a fair setting, but yeah doubt it'll happen.

There's no reason for it not to happen though, really. You'd still gain gear for showoff / PvE (not only raiding, also grinding, normal instancing, or whatever people like to do in PvE), besides, what else of use does gear have for anyone but showoff.
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#55 Deccard

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 07:21 PM

I want to make two proposals:

a) Incoming damage will not exceed 20% (at cap) of your maximum hp.
or
B) Reduces damage in relation to your opponent's resilience.

Both shouldn't work in pve.
Solution B) is kinda smart, because if you wear excessive pve gear, your damage could actually be less against full pvp geared players, depending on numbers.
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#56 Pirated

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 07:29 PM

This is something I've always been against.

This is not an FPS, it is an MMORPG, which involves gearing your character.

What would be the point to compete in arena if the gear you earn cannot be used to get better?

Indeed, a lot of the people on arena junkies have played tournament realms and have enjoyed the gear normalization, but wouldn't it be sad to have a full deadly set, including all pieces you farmed through honor, usable only in Dalaran and in PvE?

no, it's fucking purple pixels, who gives a shit?

it may be an MMORPG, but gear advantage in a competitive environment is incredibly stupid, and has ALWAYS ruined the game (SUP 4 piece/4 piece dual glaive rogues)

THIS GAME'S PVP WILL NEVER BE BALANCED UNLESS EVERYONE IS IN THE SAME GEAR.

PERIOD.
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#57 Zumut

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 07:33 PM

no, it's fucking purple pixels, who gives a shit?

it may be an MMORPG, but gear advantage in a competitive environment is incredibly stupid, and has ALWAYS ruined the game (SUP 4 piece/4 piece dual glaive rogues)

THIS GAME'S PVP WILL NEVER BE BALANCED UNLESS EVERYONE IS IN THE SAME GEAR.

PERIOD.


I am 100% with you, I would LOVE it if they would make that change because it would then be fair and rating would truly mean something. However, because of the reasons I said, it cannot be done, this is not a tournament realm.
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#58 Pirated

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 07:41 PM

*shrug*

I don't think it will ever be done, but I think that discussing solutions to these problems is ultimately futile and meaningless with gear disparity in the game
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#59 Rhinoceros

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 08:39 PM

Nerfing damage will just shift the balance of the game more towards healers. You will see holy paladins begin to dominate in every bracket because of their ridiculous throughput and efficiency. Essentially, you will recreate the long games of TBC, but a paladin will be healing instead of a druid.
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#60 Ensipid

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Posted 24 December 2008 - 08:42 PM

I'd say we wait for capped resi in arena.


Completely disagree. im at 800 and i die just as fast in pve gear, but in pve gear... i do twice ... maybe even more damage.


EDIT: less damage taken AND less healing is a good thing imo. It's the only thing that can honestly save arena pvp.

I'd like to add for the record i logged onto beta and submited feedback , although i knew it would never be read heh.

I was also perma banned from wow forums recently for posting some ideas....
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