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Chimera Shot is bad.


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#21 fatasswilly

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:22 PM

I'm still not sold on chimera for arena we'll see though I'm probably completely wrong.

I'm still feeling a 11/41/19 or 0/41/30 ish type builds.

If I ever see another hunter that is chimera build hes going to be sucking my viper stings on CD every time.


I tried 11/41/19, but counterattack is better than 5% DR, imo.
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#22 fatasswilly

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:24 PM

just make sure you at least get 3/3 LnL bro


I might skip LnL altogether and go 2/3 imp. wing clip. While nice to have, LnL does not fit into my playstyle at all.

I've said this countless times, I'll say it again: mindless spamming of instants is not the correct way to play a ranged DPS class.

If you want to spam instants like a mouth breathing serennia, roll a warrior.
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#23 fatasswilly

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:25 PM

All stings have a debuff duration so your argument for 2 gcds is terrible.


Right. Did you know that poison cleansing totem has a 1 second GCD? And that shamans have a poison dispel on top of that?

You are terrble. Learn basic class mechanics before you attempt to argue anything, son.
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#24 Levidian

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:28 PM

I might skip LnL altogether and go 2/3 imp. wing clip. While nice to have, LnL does not fit into my playstyle at all.

I've said this countless times, I'll say it again: mindless spamming of instants is not the correct way to play a ranged DPS class.

If you want to spam instants like a mouth breathing serennia, roll a warrior.


Being able to pop off extra on the move damage as needed after applying (at times) an absolute CC on someone is powerful.

It would be like if mages got a couple free no cd fireblasts after casting poly. (kinda)
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#25 fatasswilly

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:29 PM

I doubt people will have the luxury of spamming dispel on a scorpid sting in the current state of the game.


In the current state of the game, people are running around with sub 100 resilience. Do you honestly think that this is going to continue?

Also, shamans, the best healers, do not spam dispel. They use a 1 second GCD to drop a totem that dispels poisons on party members within 30 yards instantly.

Also, ret paladins will be very popular as a support DPS class. While cleanse is not strong at all, ret paladins actually do have time to spam dispel, and when coupled with abolish/PCT, it cripples any sort of reliance on poisons (chim shot).

Once again, basic game mechanics. Learn them.
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#26 Demetrious

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:31 PM

AotV reduces our damage by MORE THAN 50%. Part of winning arenas is about forcing another team defensive and forcing their healers to ... heal. The most dangerous thing you can encounter in many situations is a healer that is able to assist in his teams offensive pressure/control.

There is no exaggerating the FACT that you will be losing 18% dodge, 30% run speed on dodge, and 300+ attack power EVERY time you want to get some mana back.

Working on regen between kill pushes is something easily done when you're not being focused but when you are the target the other team is trying to sit down switching to aotv can be a very painful experience.


Didn't you just link a build with Aspect Mastery in it? And 355 attack power isn't going to be as substantial a part of your dps when you're fully kitted out in s5 deadly. Instead of losing "over 50% of your dps" you're losing either 5X% without Aspect Mastery or 4X% with it (and X is a low % that is only going to decrease from season to season.)

Again, you're ignoring the fact that every class with a mana bar has to be judicious when they're getting low. Mages have to hide and evocate, Druids have to find a pillar and Innervate if you have any kind of offensive dispel, Locks have to watch their taps when they're low on HP, Shaman have to try to hide their mana tide where it won't be one-shot, Priests have to be careful their shadowfiend wont' be PW:S'd or IB'd or Shadow Ward'd or Feared into giving them no regen, they have to create breathing room to channel Hymn of Hope, Pallies have to make sure they don't pop Divine Plea when the other team is putting out a lot of pressure and everyone has to run away and do absolutely no damage or CC in order to drink.

You, by comparison, lose a bit of melee mitigation. At a point in the fight when people's trinkets are probably down and you can probably safely make breathing room with scatter, disengage, etc.

Take a little solace in the fact that, out of all these classes, you can still operate at 50-60% effectiveness in terms of DPS and 100% effectiveness in terms of CC and still are able to use your pet while exercising your means of mana regeneration. Your tradeoff is taking a little longer to get that mana back, but remember that it doesn't take you any cooldowns to do so, unlike every other mana user except locks (and discounting drinking, obviously.)
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#27 Demetrious

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:35 PM

Scorpid is necessary only if you're going 51 into MM. Otherwise, crab is superior by far; a 4 second root that's not on GCD is godly. This is the major factor in killing Chim Shot for me, losing the 4 second root.

And yes, I suppose that team makeup factors in to this, but rogues are the only other class that can apply poison. Chimera shot would be less bad if you have a rogue teammate, but you're still restricted to Chim Shotting your burn target only, unless you want to waste 3 seconds, 807 mana, and your "OMG ONLY MM BURST SHOT" to disarm that warrior that's smashing your skull in or something. For 5 seconds.

Magic debuffs do not protect poisons.

I can see Chim shot working IF you have a rogue teammate, but I'd still rather skip it.


On the subject of magic debuffs, I thought that cleanse was a single debuff of the 3 classes described in the tooltip. Thanks for correcting me and giving your reasoning in further detail.
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#28 fatasswilly

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:35 PM

Being able to pop off extra on the move damage as needed after applying (at times) an absolute CC on someone is powerful.

It would be like if mages got a couple free no cd fireblasts after casting poly. (kinda)


Yes, it's nice. I cannot argue that it's a useful ability to have.

However, we simply have so many good talents to choose from, something must be given up.

With the plethora of anti melee abilities we've been given, I find that getting away from melee to be no problem at all, so instant attacks are nice, but a luxury.

However, my current hunter playstyle is very similar to that of a mage. I pull steady shot combos when my targets are pinned/counterattacked/entrapped/imp. wing clipped if I drop LnL for it/stunned by my ret paladin partner.

Ret/hunter will be very similar in playstyle to that of rogue/hunter (melee stuns, ranged DPS uses cast time ability to set up massive burst, melee helps burst down). LnL does not help achieve this goal.

I really like imp. wing clip, because it helps with my steady combos. I was simply trying LnL out; I try every useful talent before making judgement.
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#29 fatasswilly

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:36 PM

On the subject of magic debuffs, I thought that cleanse was a single debuff of the 3 classes described in the tooltip. Thanks for correcting me and giving your reasoning in further detail.


Cleanse dispels 1 disease, 1 poison, and 1 magic effect in 1 GCD.

Very good if you're fighting, say, DK/Rogue, who will apply both disease and poison.

Bad if you're fighting UA lock/spriest, who will stack mass magic debuffs.
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#30 Demetrious

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:39 PM

While on the subject of different specs, does anyone else think it might be a good idea to use some sort of BM spec early in the season? Myself along with most others will be running around with little resil, and it seems BM will help with survivability and good burst at least for shorter games.


Hey there sexy, how about you and me and Electraa get a little BM/Arcane/Resto lovin' goin on?
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#31 fatasswilly

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:41 PM

On the subject of AotV:

Grouping with a ret paladin is a MUST. With JoW and replenishment, I can sustain my mana pool much, much longer than I could on my own.

Ret paladins are the BEST support DPS class in the game, and not because of their burst. They provide, as mentioned, exceptional team mana regeneration, stun removal (only class that does), an extra master's call, and offheals. Oh, and a 7 second stun for you to cast your steady combo.

I see no other option for a 2v2 teammate, or 3v3 support DPS. Death Knight? LOL, right.
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#32 Vec

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:41 PM

Hey there sexy, how about you and me and Electraa get a little BM/Arcane/Resto lovin' goin on?

How can I deny playing with brutal glad demetrious and electraa
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#33 Levidian

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:41 PM

I think you're missing some of the details behind what I said

force a hunter oom > ram > win.

The point was you can cripple a hunters damage and survivability by forcing him into viper, pressuring a weakened hunter when hes lom will be the most effective time to do so. If you can get a hunter in that situation you can pressure him, CC his partner and just win the mana war.

Hunters will remain some of the better targets to attack in 3v3 regardless of the defensive boots they've received lately.

You're right though that our mana supply will be fairly fluid and that is because we need to operate like a rogue or warrior we we don't have the luxuary of a rage or energy system so our mana regen mechanics have been adjusted to help our mana be less of a finite resource. It's still the lesser of the 3 power sources for the back bone MS classes.
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#34 Levidian

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:45 PM

Yea unstop I already theorycrafted and setup my team for s5 a couple weeks ago.

I'm running resto shm hunter ret also and I played the combo some at 70 after 3.0 to get a feel. replen is definitely going to be choice in regards to keeping us out of aotv for as long as possible and speeding regen when we are forced into viper.

Games should last longer than they did at 70 for obvious reasons but the endurance benefit of having replen on the team was noticeable and will have a noticeable impact on the team.

Lucky for me I have our servers best resto shm and best ret paladin lined up rdy to do work.

The only teams that had a chance at the time besides freak losses from fuck ups were to RMP and those were because I couldn't find a weapon chain so I would go 15+ seconds sometimes w/o being able to cast a single interrupt.
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#35 fatasswilly

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:51 PM

Yea unstop I already theorycrafted and setup my team for s5 a couple weeks ago.

I'm running resto shm hunter ret also and I played the combo some at 70 after 3.0 to get a feel. replen is definitely going to be choice in regards to keeping us out of aotv for as long as possible and speeding regen when we are forced into viper.

Games should last longer than they did at 70 for obvious reasons but the endurance benefit of having replen on the team was noticeable and will have a noticeable impact on the team.

Lucky for me I have our servers best resto shm and best ret paladin lined up rdy to do work.

The only teams that had a chance at the time besides freak losses from fuck ups were to RMP and those were because I couldn't find a weapon chain so I would go 15+ seconds sometimes w/o being able to cast a single interrupt.


Why not just get deflection? :(
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#36 Levidian

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:52 PM

Why not just get deflection? :(


Oh I didn't feel like respecing for like 10 games we didn't run into RMP until we got up around 2100 we played and that was our last session to f around before wotlk dropped.
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#37 PerfectHair

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 03:54 AM

:) some real posts.

I have fallen IN LOVE WITH FERAL:druid:

3v3 Feral hunter resto shaman. Heroism Bezerk BW Raptor Pet for bleed. Farie Fire brings up hunter dps alot and 5% crit.

OP buff on lava burst. Downfall is interupts when you can miam then bash.

Your druid can put some pve gear on get those 14k ferocious bites.

until people have resil this is easy wins.
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#38 Ragerlis

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 03:34 PM

at 3v3 or 5v5 with 2 or more potencial dispellers yes, chimera shot can be bad, but at 2v2 or roguexhunterxrandom chimera stills strong, but how you want kill someone at 2v2 only with steady aimed and arcane shots without lock nd load? its a basic game, cc dispeller burst down other and chimera shots is perfect to do this

and yes, the mana cost sucks much.
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#39 fatasswilly

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 07:55 PM

at 3v3 or 5v5 with 2 or more potencial dispellers yes, chimera shot can be bad, but at 2v2 or roguexhunterxrandom chimera stills strong, but how you want kill someone at 2v2 only with steady aimed and arcane shots without lock nd load? its a basic game, cc dispeller burst down other and chimera shots is perfect to do this

and yes, the mana cost sucks much.


Do mages rely on an omg super burst instant cast to kill people?

Yes, they do. Easymode arcane mages, which, while easy to apply, are less effective.

Skilled (read: frost) mages rely on shatter combos, which require a cast time, to kill people. I rely on steady combos. Sadly, anyone with 51 points in MM is about as skilled as an arcane mage.
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#40 Ragerlis

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 09:01 PM

Do mages rely on an omg super burst instant cast to kill people?

Yes, they do. Easymode arcane mages, which, while easy to apply, are less effective.

Skilled (read: frost) mages rely on shatter combos, which require a cast time, to kill people. I rely on steady combos. Sadly, anyone with 51 points in MM is about as skilled as an arcane mage.


not instant cast to kill people, substitute shot for multi shot. (shared CD with aimed remember?).
Frost mages play a game for a perfect cc on healers/magicdispellers to shatter someone with a guaranteeded crit/kill, what kind of combo with steady re you talking about? dazed someone and spam steady while arcane and aimed re on CD to death?

You cant make this kind of comparison mage/hunter.

Obviously a good use from aimed arcanes and how to use steadys make a difference for good/perfect hunter. but you cant make arguments based on that :(

sorry for the horrible english too, its not my first language :(
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