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Rogue WotLK Talent Builds


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#1 Tyveris

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 05:27 AM

Hey guys. We need your help. We are going to be updating our talent guides for Wrath and were hoping you could post your planned PvP build for level 80 along with a short description about it. Also, if you have any thoughts on the individual talents, listing those would be helpful as well. Each person will be credited and we will keep track of it with our new contribution system (no details yet).

Thanks in advance for everyone who helps out.
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#2 Reconus

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 06:04 AM

Going to nerd it up a bit. I don't want to elaborate on any point too much, so apologies if you are reading and expecting a guide or multiple reasons behind why i chose what.

Here is what should be the typical Combat(Swords, substitute sword spec for mace spec/fists if you will) PvE spec at level 80. Not hybrid for partial pvp or anything, it's more suited for questing, farming, instances and raiding.

http://www.wowhead.c...MgVb00xqru0gRtx

Q: Why killing spree?
A: It doesn't cost any energy and plus it's cool as hell :)

Q: Why Endurance?
A: Survivability is important, you don't do any DPS when you're dead.

Here's something for PvE mutilate.

http://www.wowhead.c...MoiboIuAo0gcZxb

Q: Why fleet footed?
A: It allows you to enchant your boots with something else other than x + minor speed. The only other place the two points could have gone is imp. poisons, but i don't think a 4% chance to apply poisons to your target will be really noticeable. (i'm not a theorycrafter mind you, this is merely personal preference)

Q: Why master poisoner over close quarters combat?
A: The only difference is that on your character sheet it will show that you have 3% more crit if you spec into close quarters combat. Master poisoner gives you the bonus of reduced poison duration aswell as the 3% crit on your target (assuming they have your poisons applied to them)

I can't really link anymore builds, such as PvP ones because of the amount of new talents being released. The specs are based on what i would spec at 80 for raiding and what I've seen in beta already. Hope it helps.


p.s. if im missing something feel free to point it out or argue it.
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darty

#3 maarko

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 06:06 AM

42/5/24
http://www.wowhead.c...oIzZ0xZebbbhhkb

Pretty standard Mutilate PVP spec with prep. Not sure if Initiative is even worth it as mutilate since you already have mass combo points. Could stick two of em into Imp Ambush and the other into camo.

41/5/25
http://www.wowhead.c...oczZ0xZebrbhMkb
Another Mutilate Prep, this one is without FA since its pretty overrated for pvp anyways. Also dropped initiative for camo + imp ambush.

14/5/52 (Shadow Dance Daggers)
http://www.wowhead.c...ZebbbhGkbVzAcRt

Pretty weird spec but i think it works. Not having a point in camo is pretty fail though. Could just drop Lethality and put those 4 points to finish Imp evisc + 2/2 waylay and 1/3 camo. All personal preference i guess. Something like this:
11/5/55
http://www.wowhead.c...ZebdbhGkbVzAfRt

5/54/12 (PvP Combat)
http://www.wowhead.c...b0bxqMurgRte0bb

Combat actually looks like a pretty solid pvp spec. Really really good consistent damage and Killing Spree + BF gives you that extra bit of burst when you need it. On top of that you have the Deadly Throw interrupt in Throwing Spec. New Nerves of Steel is pretty awesome as well.
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#4 Reconus

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 06:09 AM

lol you had pvp builds, why did you edit your post? put them back up =o
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darty

#5 maarko

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Posted 13 November 2008 - 06:48 AM

lol you had pvp builds, why did you edit your post? put them back up =o


forgot about descriptions ;p
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#6 Makk

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Posted 14 November 2008 - 03:32 PM

http://www.wowhead.c...LZe0rbhhddVzAco
Just a basic shadowstep build at 80, but with additional toys. Fleet footed with shadowstep gives a very high mobility buff, 4/5 DW Spec increases the sustained damage of the spec, CB and prep to pretend its pre BC again, and lastly honor among thieves, because seal fate just isn't quite strong enough.

Anyway, I think this will be a pretty solid and versatile build, can obviously switch some points around like if you intend to play with a healer compared to double dps grab quick recovery if that floats your boat.
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#7 Zanny

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Posted 15 November 2008 - 07:56 AM

http://www.wowhead.c...ockZ0xZebbbI0zb

Focused Attacks with 15% crit just doesnt seem worth it, compared to 10% more damage in KS when you have 130 energy burst, possible evis glyph and prep for a continuous stunlock. Also setup because mut is and will remain a finesse spec, and you will be pulling out all your tricks to avoid damage because you cant tank lvl 80 burst from plate effectively.

Deadened Nerves is another option, but honestly it only comes into play under pressure, and under pressure you should be able to avoid most damage outside stuns, and if you are stunned you are dieing super-fast with or without the talent. Id rather throw 10% more damage into my stunlock rather than hope 6% less damage saves me at 200 hp.
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#8 Unforgotten

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 10:31 AM

http://www.wowhead.c...qburxoZe0rbhhzz

My H/AR/P Build for 80.

Its build on the old known H/AR/P, but with a better energy regeneration. The new vitality and nerves of steel are really worth it, to spec them. And with 10 Points more to the old H/AR/P, u can now specc Combat potency, without losing some of the good old PvP talents in the Subtlety tree.

In the moment, i didnt really believe that we are gettin interupt back on our gloves. But if we gettin them back, i would spent the 2 point from imp throw into Blood Spatter.

Its an Build with good movability from sprint, high survivabilty thru preparation and really good burst with adrenalin rush.
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#9 Magdain

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 06:01 PM

http://www.wowhead.c...hqburxZe0fbhhzz

My H/AR/P Build for 80.

Its build on the old known H/AR/P, but with a better energy regeneration. The new vitality and nerves of steel are really worth it, to spec them. And with 10 Points more to the old H/AR/P, u can now specc Combat potency, without losing some of the good old PvP talents in the Subtlety tree.

In the moment, i didnt really believe that we are gettin interupt back on our gloves. But if we gettin them back, i would spent the 2 point from imp throw into Blood Spatter.

Its an Build with good movability from sprint, high survivabilty thru preparation and really good burst with adrenalin rush.


You have 43 points in combat and don't have surprise attacks...
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#10 Unforgotten

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 07:46 PM

You have 43 points in combat and don't have surprise attacks...


right! now with suprise atacks.

http://www.wowhead.c...qburxoZe0rbhhzz
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#11 Barracuda

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 08:55 PM

http://www.wowhead.c...qMurgoZe0rbhhdb
This would be my version of "harp" -> see the sinister strike build. I think the bonuses blade twisting, surprise attacks and agression are too good to give up.
Feel free to correct me:P
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#12 Unforgotten

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 09:45 PM

http://www.wowhead.c...qMurgoZe0rbhhdb
This would be my version of "harp" -> see the sinister strike build. I think the bonuses blade twisting, surprise attacks and agression are too good to give up.
Feel free to correct me:P


u can not name it H/AR/P without Hemmo, H/AR/P = Hemo/adrenalin rush/prep. :P

I think its an Combat/Prep. :)
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#13 Barracuda

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Posted 17 November 2008 - 10:40 PM

I guess :> Combat/prep
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#14 mirag

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Posted 19 November 2008 - 11:11 PM

http://www.wowhead.c...qrurTRZe0ddhhzd
HarP 0/47/24
All the people i know of who have done some real numbercrunishing say the same. Hemo beats SS very slightly for these kind of specs.

http://www.wowhead.c...sckZ0xZebfbh0zb
Mutilate with deadend nerves to be able to abuse some extra pve gear.

http://www.wowhead.c...ZebrbhMdbVzAckt
Sub dagger. 20/0/51
Feel free to drop something for dw spec.

http://www.wowhead.c...Ze0ddhhddVzAckt
Sub hemo combat. 3/17/51

http://www.wowhead.c...ZZe0ddhhddVzAco
Sub hemo assa 27/0/44
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#15 hopang12

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Posted 20 November 2008 - 09:57 PM

hmmmm
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#16 DemonHunter874

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Posted 24 November 2008 - 02:40 AM

Mut/Prep for Rogue + Affliction Lock 2v2:
http://www.wowhead.c...oczZ0xZebbbhhdb
Note: I might swap points in initiative for camo, depends on the feel of the team in arena.

Mut/Prep for Rogue + Demo Lock or Mage 2v2:
http://www.wowhead.c...oczZ0xZebrbhMzb
Note: It could be possible to get a bit more damage out of the spec by dropping a point in fleet footed and camo for 2 in Master Poisoner.

Adaptation of Hemo/Shs build popular at 70:
http://www.wowhead.c...ZZebfbhhddVzA0o
Note: I don't see this build being very viable at 80 due to its lack of burst and lower sustained damage, though it has some advantages in certain situations. Player would want to drop a couple points for Quick Recovery if running with a healer.

Shadow Dance:
http://www.wowhead.c...ZebfbhMddVzAbot
Note: I haven't done a lot of experimentation with this build, but I can't really see Shadow Dance as a viable spec for anything other than double dps (in 2v2).

These are all just my best guess at what looks decent. It's hard to tell what's best before the arena season actually begins.
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#17 Badeandtwo

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Posted 03 March 2009 - 02:34 PM

Well I wanted to post this so you may try it after 3.1 I tried it and works well in ptr. And with resiliance changes white damage and long term damage is gonna be more important.
So here's what I tried for arenas
The talent is based on long arenas so you'll be doing damage with hemo and rupture and always put expose on target.
http://talent.mmo-ch...00&version=9626.

I know someones are gonna say why hemo why not snister (with glyph you can damage more with rupture and white damage which is the point of the talent and also if I did a snister/evis talent I couldnt have given points to more important stuff.
And I chose to give to nerves of steel except heightened senes because nerves of steel really help you survive a lot it's like another cheat death.
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#18 Aphex

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Posted 16 April 2009 - 11:33 AM

Going to nerd it up a bit. I don't want to elaborate on any point too much, so apologies if you are reading and expecting a guide or multiple reasons behind why i chose what.

Here is what should be the typical Combat(Swords, substitute sword spec for mace spec/fists if you will) PvE spec at level 80. Not hybrid for partial pvp or anything, it's more suited for questing, farming, instances and raiding.

http://www.wowhead.c...MgVb00xqru0gRtx

Q: Why killing spree?
A: It doesn't cost any energy and plus it's cool as hell :)

Q: Why Endurance?
A: Survivability is important, you don't do any DPS when you're dead.

Here's something for PvE mutilate.

http://www.wowhead.c...MoiboIuAo0gcZxb

Q: Why fleet footed?
A: It allows you to enchant your boots with something else other than x + minor speed. The only other place the two points could have gone is imp. poisons, but i don't think a 4% chance to apply poisons to your target will be really noticeable. (i'm not a theorycrafter mind you, this is merely personal preference)

Q: Why master poisoner over close quarters combat?
A: The only difference is that on your character sheet it will show that you have 3% more crit if you spec into close quarters combat. Master poisoner gives you the bonus of reduced poison duration aswell as the 3% crit on your target (assuming they have your poisons applied to them)

I can't really link anymore builds, such as PvP ones because of the amount of new talents being released. The specs are based on what i would spec at 80 for raiding and what I've seen in beta already. Hope it helps.


p.s. if im missing something feel free to point it out or argue it.


For the first bolded text, you are absolutely shooting yourself in the foot by doing that, by having 3/5 improved poisons you are actually making sure that instant and woundpoison are about as good as one another, which is extremely hurtful to Mutilate PvE DPS. You simply *NEED* 5/5 improoved poisons, there is no other way.

And for the second part:

No, this is false.

Master Poisoner is a buff, one which is also covered by ret paladins, elemental shammy's, and other rogues. And unfortunatly for you, and others who spec like this, it does not stack.

So unless you are the only rogue, raiding with no ret's or ele's then I suggest you pay a trip to the class trainer.
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#19 zEck

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Posted 17 April 2009 - 04:21 PM

That post is old and hasn't been updated since november, 3.1 specs:

PvE Mutilate:
http://www.wowhead.c...uVo0xV0hZxb:TIf

PvE Combat:
http://www.wowhead.c...xcxoru0xRtx:0hf

3.1 Q/A from elitist jerks by Aldriana:

3.1 Rogue FAQ (If you're new-ish here, read this before posting)
I figured I'd perform a service for the community and compile an list of the most common questions that people seem to be having regarding the patch. Also because I'm tired of reading the same stupid stuff over and over.

Note that, because the answers are now compiled in an easily-found location, anyone who asks a question answered herein will now get an extra infraction point for being stupid.

I'm generally not going to provide the full reasoning behind these answers, either; if you wish to know the reasons, rest assured that the discussions are out there, and, as such, you should search for them rather than asking. I'm not going to have a lot of patience for that, either. Also, as a global caveat, the answer is to most of these questions can be summarized as "use the spreadsheet(s)". If, however, you can't or won't use the spreadsheet, these are some rough guidelines to get you pointed in the correct direction.

So, without further ado, the 3.1 Rogue FAQ:

Mutilate

Q: What's the highest-DPS Mutilate spec?
A: 51/13/7

Q: Master Poisoner or Turn the Tables?
A: Too close to call in a general sense. Use a spreadsheet.

Q: Fast weapons or slow weapons?
A: Slow MH, Fast OH, but weapon speed is overall less important; the difference between a fast weapon and a slow weapon is 1-1.5 tiers of DPS. In particular: SR MH, WD OH for BIS Naxx gear.

Q: Which stats are good for Mutilate?
A: Yellow Hit > AP = Agi > Expertise = Spell Hit > Crit > Haste > ArPen > White Hit > Strength

Q: Which glyphs should I use?
A: Hunger for Blood, Mutilate, and either Rupture or TotT.

Combat

Q: What's the highest DPS Combat spec?
A: Something of a matter of debate. Personally, I'd say 15/51/5. A case can be made for 18/51/2. 7/51/13 seems to be behind.

Q: Which weapon spec is best?
A: Whichever one you have the best weapons for.

Q: Okay, then what weapons are good?
A: For a MH, you want something slow (2.5-2.7) and as high-DPS as possible - DPS matters more than speed. For an OH, you want something as fast as possible - 1.4 is best, and failing that 1.5. An OH Sword can be .1 slower than an similar-DPS dagger or mace and still be competitive. Since two-weapon specs are basically dead, you thus want two weapons of the same specialization that satisfy this as well as possible. For more information, see your local friendly spreadsheet. But in particular: CG/WD for BIS T7.

Q: Which stats are good for combat?
A: AP = Agi > Yellow Hit > ArPen > Spell hit > Crit = Expertise > Haste > White Hit > Strength

Q: Which glyphs should I use?
A: Sinister Strike, Rupture, and... well, for sustained DPS, Killing Spree is probably the best. For fights where KSp is unsuitable, TotT is a strong option. If you don't like either of those, probably SnD or Adrenaline Rush.

Combat Daggers

Q: Is combat daggers viable?
A: No.

Q: Really? But my friend told me it's good, and...
A: Still no.

Subtlety
This section's answers courtesy of Mavanas. So if they're wrong, blame him.

Q: What's the highest-DPS Subtlety spec?
A: 8/20/43 with lightning reflexes

Q: Fast weapons or slow weapons?
A: Slow MH, Fast OH

Q: Which stats are good for Subtlety?
A: While exact EP values are stll not certain, approximate order is Yellow hit > Expertise > Agility > AP > Poison Hit > Armor Pen > Crit > Haste

Q: Which glyphs should I use?
A: Eviscerate, Rupture, and either Slice and Dice or TotT.

General
Q: Okay, which of those specs does the most damage?
A: Still being debated. HAT with a stacked group is probably highest. If you can't get a stacked group, combat and mutilate seem pretty close; against Murderable targets, Mutilate might have a slight edge, while against non-Murderable targets, combat seems to be a bit ahead.

Q: I notice you say Agi = AP above. Which should I use?
A: At T7 gear levels, AP may be slightly more DPS; however, the increased survivability from agility also has some value, and the DPS difference is really not large. So some people prefer to use agi for this reason. Once you get T8 4/5, Agi is pretty clearly superior.

Q: How good is the T8 2/5 set bonus?
A: Good.

Q: How good is the T8 4/5 set bonus?
A: Really really good.

Q: Would you like to be a little more helpful?
A: Fine. Both are better than the corresponding set bonus in T7. You will almost certainly want to wind up using 4/5 T8 as a result, barring the arrival of really crazy offset items. T7 4/5 will mostly likely be worth breaking for T8 2/5 by the time you pick up 3 pieces of T8, even if it's just T8.10. For specifics, check a spreadsheet.

Q: But I tested on a target dummy and got different answers!
A: Was the target dummy fully raid debuffed, and you fully raid buffed? Did you perform multiple trials totaling at least an hour to reduce variance? I didn't think so. That's why you got different answers.

Q: Which poisons should I use?
A: MH should be Instant Poison if you're specced into Improved Poisons and Wound Poison otherwise. OH should be Deadly Poison pretty much no matter what.

Q: Why don't you recommend using the Envenom glyph? It made it onto live servers...
A: Because testing indicates it's nonfunctional - that is, yes, it exists, but it doesn't do anything.


Spreadsheet and instructions: http://elitistjerks....on_spreadsheet/
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