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Healers in tough times


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#1 Imirish

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 03:25 PM

So after being amazingly happy to see no lagg in arenas yesterday for EU bloodhoof - Blackout battlegroup me and my druid partner decided to test the water out (we pretty much knew it would be alot of boomkins, rogues, ret pallies and arcane mages) and it was, out of 13 matches we faced 1 team without one of those four, and that was versus a gladiator warrior / shaman team that we almost beat but ended up outgearing us severely, we only lost 4 points however.

My point is that i am seeing no healers in arena and just all double dps. While we managed to beat about half of these double dps teams, some of them (especially pve gear ones) just three shot one of us, I really hope it wont be this way at 80.

Assuming you're not getting lag, what has all your experiences been about comps higher up?

#2 Kubuss

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 03:37 PM

Imirish said:

Sand that was versus a gladiator warrior / shaman team that we almost beat but ended up outgearing us severely, we only lost 4 points however.

I just looked at your gear and what you're saying is not true. You're pretty geared and it shouldn't matter much :x

#3 Imirish

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 06:49 PM

3/5 Brutal versus 5/5 brutal with wep is what id call severely outgeared. Especially since the warrior's wep was S4 axe. But it is beside the point.
My point is the complete lack of healer teams in my Battlegroup atm, and wondering if other battlegroups are experiencing the same thing.

#4 Wardeath

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Posted 02 November 2008 - 06:56 PM

The only reason there is so many double dps teams is because we now have talents that should be balanced for level 80.  Instead we have these level 80 talents that are tuned around us at level 70.  Of course they are going to do more dmg...more burst...whatever it may be.  At 80 it'll even out better because people will have more stam/resil/armor whatever it may be

I haven't done any arena on my warlock yet (we run lock/rogue) because the arenas have been shitty as hell and to my knowledge still are.  But on my resto druid I started running with a ret paladin buddy and to be honest druids can still outlast a long time and can still stay up against all the double dps teams.  It's tough but can be done.

(Besides Boomkin/Boomkin trying to heal through that shit is fucking ridiculous)

#5 brod

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 07:11 AM

The main factor that's going to make level 80 more 'normal' is the scaling back of all ratings (armor pen, hit, crit, etc).

#6 Zeffer

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 11:27 AM

Yea it will get better at 80.

#7 Prov

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 11:55 AM

I think I've probably said this 200 times already, but it's not any better at 80.

#8 Deccard

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 01:59 PM

It is better at 80 (premade gear). Don't overexaggerate. Damage goes up, but not as much as hp (+100%).

#9 Realaz

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 02:00 PM

Deccard said:

It is better at 80 (premade gear). Don't overexaggerate. Damage goes up, but not as much as hp (+100%).
Because HP matters right. Well, in duels maybe.

#10 Driea

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 02:16 PM

Realaz said:

Because HP matters right. Well, in duels maybe.

You're stupid.

More HP gives a higher timeframe to heal or a higher timeframe of which you can let your healer drink.

Oh and, +12 spell dmg gems doesn't matter either because it only adds +0.01% more dmg, RIGHT?!

#11 Realaz

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 02:26 PM

Driea said:

You're stupid.

More HP gives a higher timeframe to heal or a higher timeframe of which you can let your healer drink.

Oh and, +12 spell dmg gems doesn't matter either because it only adds +0.01% more dmg, RIGHT?!

Welcome to post-S2

#12 Dynimight

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 02:29 PM

Driea said:

You're stupid.

More HP gives a higher timeframe to heal or a higher timeframe of which you can let your healer drink.

Oh and, +12 spell dmg gems doesn't matter either because it only adds +0.01% more dmg, RIGHT?!

He's not stupid.  HP really doesn't matter when heals can't keep up with damage.

#13 Driea

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 02:51 PM

Obviously you dont understand a higher HP pool will give healers a longer time to land their heals. Heals scaled in power too.

And im not sure what you meant with post S2. If you're thinking of people not using +sta gems, you dont think very far.

#14 Dynimight

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 02:58 PM

Driea said:

Heals scaled in power too.

Relative to damage and mana cost, no they didn't.  That's kinda the point.

#15 Driea

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 03:04 PM

Oh my god.

Bring a 10k tank into BT and blame the dmg for being high....

This forum is so close to the offical ones im not gonna read it anymore. So i don't care if i get banned for this now. 2nd time i've been met by this stupidity on this forum, bye

#16 Dante

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 03:13 PM

Imirish said:

3/5 Brutal versus 5/5 brutal with wep is what id call severely outgeared. Especially since the warrior's wep was S4 axe.

Agree about the weapon but I wouldn't say "severely" more like just a wee bit :p

#17 Dynimight

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 03:45 PM

lol

#18 Imirish

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 05:28 PM

Wardeath said:

The only reason there is so many double dps teams is because we now have talents that should be balanced for level 80.  Instead we have these level 80 talents that are tuned around us at level 70.  Of course they are going to do more dmg...more burst...whatever it may be.  At 80 it'll even out better because people will have more stam/resil/armor whatever it may be

I haven't done any arena on my warlock yet (we run lock/rogue) because the arenas have been shitty as hell and to my knowledge still are.  But on my resto druid I started running with a ret paladin buddy and to be honest druids can still outlast a long time and can still stay up against all the double dps teams.  It's tough but can be done.

(Besides Boomkin/Boomkin trying to heal through that shit is fucking ridiculous)


Thank you for your reply, but
How do you outlast ret / rogue? With HoJ and KS not sharing DR, my druid partner finds he has only the following 2 options available, both resulting in a loss:

A. Sit through both the full 6 sec kidney shot and 7 sec HoJ, coupled with CS making it a 16 sec stun (3 sec CS, 6 sec KS, 7 sec HoJ), enough time to get killed several times over with current burst.
B. Trinket either the KS or HoJ in order to survive, to then just find himself blinded. Add in sap > repentance and again that will be plenty of time for the ret / rogue to go for a kill, this time on me.

Edited by Imirish, 03 November 2008 - 05:31 PM.


#19 Buckybadger

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 05:40 PM

I agree that the huge amount of boomkins retadins and mages in arena right now is dumb but when people use this as evidence that things are really terrible I dont find it compelling in itself. Are these classes over represented? Absolutely and its dumb because this shit needs to be more balanced. On the other hand if this is the reason people are saying things are worse than before well that just isn't true, because this is absolutely no different than pre 3.0 just change boomkin - Ret - mage to Resto Druid - Warr - Rogue (and to lesser extent warlocks)

So while I agree that things are unbalanced and dmg is stupid high sometimes I think people say lots of these classes means things are worse now when really its just as unbalanced as before with different classes.

#20 Zaragoorn

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Posted 03 November 2008 - 05:48 PM

Imirish said:

Thank you for your reply, but
How do you outlast ret / rogue? With HoJ and KS not sharing DR, my druid partner finds he has only the following 2 options available, both resulting in a loss:

A. Sit through both the full 6 sec kidney shot and 7 sec HoJ, coupled with CS making it a 16 sec stun (3 sec CS, 6 sec KS, 7 sec HoJ), enough time to get killed several times over with current burst.
B. Trinket either the KS or HoJ in order to survive, to then just find himself blinded. Add in sap > repentance and again that will be plenty of time for the ret / rogue to go for a kill, this time on me.

Pop out of stealth, go tree of life and PREHOT. you need to have all hots up by the time the rogue comes on you. As the warrior you should try getting on the paladin. If you can get a decent start on the paladin, do an intervene on your druid as the paladin comes close, as this is when the rogue will cheap shot (resulting in you taking the cheap shot)

Now your druid will keep spamming hots, while the rogue has to work up all his 5 combo points. When the ret paladin stuns, disarm him. If he doesnt bubble, he has "wasted" a HoJ. if he does, you have a really good start.

With the paladin in bubble you DPS the rogue as hard as possible, forcing the paladin to heal. Your druid will be able to live through the kidney shot if he has enough hots, if not, he *might* have to use trinket, which isn't good.

If trinket is followed by a blind on the druid (which you will ofc attempt to take with an intervene if off CD, most likely not tho), then your druid will do as many hots as possible on you before they get the blind in. This way you can still manage to survive their DPS with shieldwall etc. Make sure your druid doesnt get sapped.

When all their cooldowns are used and you're still alive, finish off the rogue while stopping the paladin from healing.

Edited by Zaragoorn, 03 November 2008 - 05:53 PM.





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