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[Blizzard] Official "Ret is OP" thread


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#1 Azazela

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 05:27 PM

EDIT: Please keep all your frustrations and complaints about the state of how "Ret is Ridiculous" to this thread. Also, please try to keep things constructive. -Tyv



http://forums.worldo...No=1&sid=2000#0

Since these threads seem to be proliferating, I figure'd I'd just start a new one. Here is a quick Q&A.

Q: Is Ret OP?
A: Perhaps. We think Ret's dps isn't abnormally high in PvE, and may not even be high in PvP over the course of a long fight. Where we are worried is how much damage Ret can do up front. It's also Holy damage, which isn't a big deal when you're considering a fully sundered mob, but can turn into a lot of damage in PvP.

Q: Are we going to nerf Ret?
A: TO THE GROUND BABY. Okay, not really, but sometimes I can't resist. We'll see how much that quote comes back to haunt me. We will probably be making some changes soon, perhaps even hotfixes. We want to be very surgical about what we do. We don't want to overdo it, and we don't want to hurt their sustained PvE damage. When we've decided, I'll make sure you all know.

Q: Why did it take us this long to admit there was a problem when EVERYONE knew about it?
A: A couple of weeks ago there were some bugs with weapon equipping that caused some problems that of course were being exploited. We didn't want to nerf Ret TO THE GROUND BABY only to discover that the weapon problem was causing 90% of it.

Q: Enough about Ret. Unholy death knights are worse!
A: That wasn't a question, but we think we have Unholy in a better place now. We made some changes to a few deep talents (that the DK community is already aware of, so don't fret) to get Unholy's dps more in line. Also, you aren't going to see any PvP DKs for a long time, so we need to focus on paladins for now.

Q: Hi. Thanks for the update. While you're here, can I ask you all these other offtopic questions about paladins or the game in general?
A: ...






Rebalance incoming. Hopefully they don't butcher ret for 80 though. :mad:

From the first quote I suspect they'll change Divine Storm to physical damage.

Edited by Azazela, 15 October 2008 - 05:44 PM.

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#2 Kluian

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 05:57 PM

Perhaps its op? lolusrs?
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#3 Calleking

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 05:57 PM

Some of the answers are quite amusing. They don't seem to have the slightest grasp of how the game actually works in PvP let alone how huge of a factor burst damage is. It's what makes or breakes being successful in PvP in most scenarios and right now ret pallys are just outperforming every class. It's gone 3½ years and they're still coming up with the dumbest things imaginable.

Wouldn't surprise me if they did pyroblast instant with only a gcd as cd while claiming it's balanced in the long run since "mages use mana".
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#4 Kluian

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 06:00 PM

What bothers me is that Blizzard will never admit they've let something broken go through, they always beat around the bush. It's probably why they're so slow to balance things, or fix things, because they will never just be honest with themselves.
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#5 Mom

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 06:32 PM

It's funny how after playing Shaman for 3 months now and Hunter for 3 years I'm better at playing my Ret pally after just 3 days... even though I got all of my gear through afking and point selling to myself.
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#6 Adriode

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 06:37 PM

What bothers me is that Blizzard will never admit they've let something broken go through, they always beat around the bush. It's probably why they're so slow to balance things, or fix things, because they will never just be honest with themselves.


You mean like when you could pull up the 2v2 ladder on any bg at any point in time since s3 (what, almost a year ago?) and see 80% of teams with a druid?
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#7 goodknight

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 07:27 PM

TO THE GROUND BABY.
I definately think things need to be tweaked with my Paladin.

I could be 2 shotting people, or I could get like 3-4 parries and all my damages is gone
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#8 Graupe

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 09:53 PM

I'm sick of all that crying...

RET PALLY IS IMBA NURF PLX!

So pally seems to be op now, what about druids? Is it random that druids were the most played class in s3 + s4 on highrating?

Cyclone wasn't op no.



Paladins were actually the worst class @ pvp the last seasons. Another example: WHY was there NO single paladin on the MLG-tournaments?

Edited by Alphatier, 15 October 2008 - 10:43 PM.

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#9 Dynimight

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 10:39 PM

^ lol
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#10 Jedi_Knight

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Posted 15 October 2008 - 10:41 PM

Cyclone wasn't op no.

No.
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#11 Tahaa

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 12:21 AM

WHY was there NO single paladin on the MLG-tournaments?


Glick plays a ret pally from time to time.

And honestly you're out of your mind if you think rets aren't op right now. Not just them though, damage has scaled monstruously all over the place it's ridiculous, but ret burst is way too high and infinite mana is just "lol".

"And what about a mana class that would regenerate a fixed amount of that mana every x seconds? No not like rogues, well like rogues but with a blue bar."
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#12 Mrt

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 03:29 AM

Well, I could live with the damage the dish out.. but the fact that I'm able to dish out 5k holy lights, and 1.5k instant flashes, while doign alot of dps.. without going out of mana..

Is... lol :D

Really weird,, but as allready said.. its the same as at lvl60's preTBC patch.. damage has gone throught the roof..!
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#13 fortucus

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 03:33 AM

TO THE GROUND NOW FFS!!
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let them hate, as long as they fear

#14 Kluian

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 03:33 AM

BTW, being underpowered is not a reason to be overpowered, there would never ever be a balance if that cycle continued.


Learn from that, pallies who think ret is fair.
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#15 Alehandra

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 08:27 AM

That is very true.
Although every paladins mind cries "but we didn't have fun the last 2 seasons" it's no reason to make them the new druids.
However, I have a problem with the majority of these, formerly sitting on the sunny side classes that now mistake a competative paladin with an overpowered one.
Many, I even go further, most of those that whine about the Ret should first of all learn how to fight one before whining about nerfing him.

I'm not saying that Ret is done and should stay that way, no, in fact I won't judge about Ret now. But people have to get used to ret being a competative PvP spec.
If, with that in mind, and an honest thought about PvP balance, not Ret nerfs, ret appears to be too strong, ret has to be toned down.
But only then, not because one might actually lose a fight against a ret paladin now.
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#16 Dante

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 10:41 AM

I'm sick of all that crying...

RET PALLY IS IMBA NURF PLX!

So pally seems to be op now, what about druids? Is it random that druids were the most played class in s3 + s4 on highrating?

Cyclone wasn't op no.



Paladins were actually the worst class @ pvp the last seasons. Another example: WHY was there NO single paladin on the MLG-tournaments?

Druids are OP but ret paladins are 10000x druids atm rofl
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#17 Tahaa

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 10:43 AM

Nono stop acting like there weren't ANY ret pallies around. Ret/war/x is a fairly "common" comp, it's not rmp nor wld but still. I had the chance to fight what seemed like awesome ret pallies, they were quite a pita and it was some fun fights, but they didn't destroy healers without MS and with infinite mana.

A line has to be drawn. This is not a matter of how you fight them, we all know and knew what ret pallies are capable of, and how to manage them.
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#18 Graupe

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 02:16 PM

It's not that I say RET isn't OP at the moment.
It's more that I'm sick of all this crying. Druids were OP the last seasons and actually everyone knew about it, but nothing changed.

And Tahaa, do you really want to tell me that there are as much palas (doesn't matter which spec) on highrated 3on3 as druids?
I played S3 as holy 2300 3s; since S4 as RET 2100 and belive me, meeting another paladin on this rating is like christmas -> one time a year...


So another thing you cry about is that instant flash of light procs. Ok there should be an inner cd and/or reduced procrate, BUT warlocks and mages have procable instant casts, too.

The thing about "endless mana". If you would remove the intense manareget from paladins talents you also have to reduce the manacosts for ALL of the paladins casts. Actually RETs go fast oom without using wisdom.




@Alehandra: In the whole /signed, but you have no idea how it is to play the WORST arena class for two seasons. And now when you get a buff(surely a big one) all the other classes cry, this sucks.
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#19 Kluian

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 02:21 PM

Classes are crying because nothing in the history of the game has been as retardedly imbalanced as ret paladins at the moment. Buffing you to viability is one thing. Turning you into unstoppable machines of destruction is quite another.
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#20 Dynimight

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Posted 16 October 2008 - 02:35 PM

Anyone comparing ret pallies to druids is grasping at straws. Druids have never been close to this OP, even with 60% travel form and 36 yard cyclones.
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