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Official 3.0 rogue spec thread


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#41 Faile

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 06:57 PM

Let's keep it simple http://wotlk.wowhead...xZe0ddhhddVzA0R

Worst specc so far.
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i say bring it on blizzard, is that all you've got


#42 Shika

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 08:23 AM

I'll try this Specc:
(0/37/24)
http://wotlk.wowhead...b0qbuMZe0rbhhzd

I think when ShS-Dagger's gonna suck and u don't wnt2go with the flow that's the way to go. or some kind of combat. energy-regen ist just great.

combat is pretty underestimated
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#43 Hntar

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 12:29 PM

Plenty of people will still probably spec 20/0/41 or something similar (I guess the new version will be 18/0/43 since vile is only 3 points now).. no reason to post that spec.

My 2dps 2's spec :o :o
0/20/41 or 5/15/41


In 2dps 2's as a rogue one of your main concerns is your team's ability to kill druids (imo). +5% hit to attacks and poisons doesn't quite replace 3/3 Vile, I will admit. But going this spec over the assass version you simply get an incredible increase in damage. 5/5 DW Spec is huge, +5% hit is good for more white hits, and if you choose to go the 5/15/41 route you get another +5% overall crit. If you go 0/20/41 you get 1 min cooldown improved sprints, 1 min cd on evasion. If you play mage/rogue like I do, you know about fight resets (mostly against good warr/druids where this is necessary). Having new evasion/sprint any time you reset is pretty nice. 1/2 imp SnD is small but helpful.

As far as my sub talent choices.. I know I will get flamed for my 2/5 relentless strikes, but you have to look at the bigger picture. For 2dps: 2/5 Relentless + 3/3 Camo > 5/5 Relentless + 0/3 Camo (slowass stealth :-s). The only other thing you could drop in order to get the rest of those Relentless points is Setup. Setup is pretty underrated; it is probably better than 3 points in Relentless.
One thought I had was that you could use cloak of skill to get 5 extra combo points on a druid or priest. How? Well, cloak lasts 5 seconds. Setup cannot happen more than once per second. Every time you attack the druid, his thorns procs, but is resisted by you. Every time you attack the priest, if he is specced reflective shield (which most 2s priests are) then you will proc setup by resisting the reflective damage 5 times. = 5 combo points. lol.
Maybe druids will stop buffing themselves w/ thorns if this starts happening :P

TLDR: With wound having 1 stack now, the +5% poison hit + shitton more damage of combat shadowstep vs. 30% dispel resist of assass shadowstep becomes a pretty interesting argument - one that is won by the combat tree imo (at least in the scope of 2dps 2's).

Mutilate 44/5/12 (http://talent.mmo-ch...000000000000000)

I think there's little question 44/5/12 (with your choice of filler talents, those are just mine) will be the best 3.0 L70 Mut spec. Choosing to go w/ no imp kidney shot was very painful, but I felt it was the weakest out of the possible choices (assuming 2v2.. if 3v3, you would probably find a way to take it).

edit: come to think of it, dropping the 3 points in master poisoner for 3/3 serrated blades might be optimal in a lot of situations. durr @ me

Combat 0/43/18 (http://talent.mmo-ch...000000000000000

People are sort of sleeping on this spec, I think it has a shot @ being a very viable alternative while playing w/ a disc priest or holy pally in 2s.
+25% damage to sinister strike, 25% increased energy regen rate, 1 minute cd improved sprints, Blade Twisting (<3), 2/3 Setup + Unfair Advantage + 3/3 parry and riposte = you will likely shyte on any melee+healer matchup (rogue priest BEATING warrior druid? BELIEVE IT!).

I really don't think anyone decent will spec shadowdance in L70 3.0, it is a gimmick spec until you hit 80 when you have enough points in assass or combat to properly support going that far into sub. Thus no shadowdance spec.

Edited by Hntar, 13 October 2008 - 12:34 PM.

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#44 Barracuda

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 12:33 PM

Worst specc so far.

Why do you think so?
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#45 bsly137

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 01:02 PM

http://talent.mmo-ch...121050135001000

nice thing about precision is that it ups your poison application as well as your melee hit. i think this may be a decent sustained dps spec.
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#46 Nekos

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 02:02 PM

Mutilate spec, without HfB

42/5/14 : http://talent.mmo-ch...000000000000000

What do you think about that one ?
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#47 Nea

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 02:48 PM

Apparently I'm the only one who likes both Focused Attacks and Master Poisoner :-) Find Weaknesses has become too weak IMO. I only hope HfB will be viable at 80 so we can take all the goodies from Assa.
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#48 Faile

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 05:31 PM

Mutilate spec, without HfB

42/5/14 : http://talent.mmo-ch...000000000000000

What do you think about that one ?

I think you're vastly under-estimating Focused Attacks and Master Poisoner.

http://talent.mmo-ch...121050135001000

nice thing about precision is that it ups your poison application as well as your melee hit. i think this may be a decent sustained dps spec.

HAT is WAY more CP generation than Ruthlessness ever could be.
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i say bring it on blizzard, is that all you've got


#49 Faile

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 05:37 PM

Why do you think so?

You do shit dps with x/x/41-45 specc, seriously it's awful, no burst and sustained dps isn't nearly enough to do shit.

You're taking DWS over VP, which is a joke as ShS(DWS is great for some speccs because of the amount of white dmg you do with constant snd, high amount of hit, alot of time on target, Mutilate, etc etc, it's minor in terms of dps(a bit better than lethality) for ShS).
You waste 2 TPs to reduce the Energy cost of EA while HAT is most likely better for keeping EA up.
You prefer 30% rupture dmg over 14% Eviscerate dmg(which is alot of burst in 3.0, and burst is what you're gonna NEED).
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i say bring it on blizzard, is that all you've got


#50 Faile

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 05:50 PM

Plenty of people will still probably spec 20/0/41 or something similar (I guess the new version will be 18/0/43 since vile is only 3 points now).. no reason to post that spec.

My 2dps 2's spec :o :o
0/20/41 or 5/15/41


In 2dps 2's as a rogue one of your main concerns is your team's ability to kill druids (imo). +5% hit to attacks and poisons doesn't quite replace 3/3 Vile, I will admit. But going this spec over the assass version you simply get an incredible increase in damage. 5/5 DW Spec is huge, +5% hit is good for more white hits, and if you choose to go the 5/15/41 route you get another +5% overall crit. If you go 0/20/41 you get 1 min cooldown improved sprints, 1 min cd on evasion. If you play mage/rogue like I do, you know about fight resets (mostly against good warr/druids where this is necessary). Having new evasion/sprint any time you reset is pretty nice. 1/2 imp SnD is small but helpful.

As far as my sub talent choices.. I know I will get flamed for my 2/5 relentless strikes, but you have to look at the bigger picture. For 2dps: 2/5 Relentless + 3/3 Camo > 5/5 Relentless + 0/3 Camo (slowass stealth :-s). The only other thing you could drop in order to get the rest of those Relentless points is Setup. Setup is pretty underrated; it is probably better than 3 points in Relentless.
One thought I had was that you could use cloak of skill to get 5 extra combo points on a druid or priest. How? Well, cloak lasts 5 seconds. Setup cannot happen more than once per second. Every time you attack the druid, his thorns procs, but is resisted by you. Every time you attack the priest, if he is specced reflective shield (which most 2s priests are) then you will proc setup by resisting the reflective damage 5 times. = 5 combo points. lol.
Maybe druids will stop buffing themselves w/ thorns if this starts happening :P

TLDR: With wound having 1 stack now, the +5% poison hit + shitton more damage of combat shadowstep vs. 30% dispel resist of assass shadowstep becomes a pretty interesting argument - one that is won by the combat tree imo (at least in the scope of 2dps 2's).

Mutilate 44/5/12 (http://talent.mmo-ch...000000000000000)

I think there's little question 44/5/12 (with your choice of filler talents, those are just mine) will be the best 3.0 L70 Mut spec. Choosing to go w/ no imp kidney shot was very painful, but I felt it was the weakest out of the possible choices (assuming 2v2.. if 3v3, you would probably find a way to take it).

edit: come to think of it, dropping the 3 points in master poisoner for 3/3 serrated blades might be optimal in a lot of situations. durr @ me

Combat 0/43/18 (http://talent.mmo-ch...000000000000000

People are sort of sleeping on this spec, I think it has a shot @ being a very viable alternative while playing w/ a disc priest or holy pally in 2s.
+25% damage to sinister strike, 25% increased energy regen rate, 1 minute cd improved sprints, Blade Twisting (<3), 2/3 Setup + Unfair Advantage + 3/3 parry and riposte = you will likely shyte on any melee+healer matchup (rogue priest BEATING warrior druid? BELIEVE IT!).

I really don't think anyone decent will spec shadowdance in L70 3.0, it is a gimmick spec until you hit 80 when you have enough points in assass or combat to properly support going that far into sub. Thus no shadowdance spec.

You're gonna want Shadowdance for 2 dps, it's pretty amazing burst, with 2 dps'ers bursting you can drop nearly anything in 2s with a Shadowdance timed correctly.

Mut: Deadened Nerves isn't good at all, Imp. KS is much better, you're also underestimating Focused Attacks, it's like 30% more Energy regen with good gear.

Combat: Specc needs alot of work, I see alot of shit I'd change, in theory it could work but the specc is just so bloated and you're gonna lack things to make it good no matter what you specc with it at lvl 70, might be better at lvl 80.
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i say bring it on blizzard, is that all you've got


#51 Faile

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 05:57 PM

I'll try this Specc:
(0/37/24)
http://wotlk.wowhead...b0qbuMZe0rbhhzd

I think when ShS-Dagger's gonna suck and u don't wnt2go with the flow that's the way to go. or some kind of combat. energy-regen ist just great.

combat is pretty underestimated

HARP is a bit better than it used to be(actually has some sustained dps with new Vitality), but why on earth are you taking Throwing Specc? 4 yards on DT isn't good at all, really, not compared to Heightened Senses.

Other than that this specc isn't too bad a choice with a healer if you don't have daggers, but Mutilate is still pretty much gonna own it.
It's got some burst and not too shabby mobility for double dps but I see Sub burst being better for heavy-dps teams.

Now if they "un-nerfed" HARP this specc would be pretty sick(not that I'm holding my breath or want it to happen).
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i say bring it on blizzard, is that all you've got


#52 Anwar

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 09:56 PM

no, you take DT for the interupt m8, its being removed from gloves, if you dont spec into it you lose the interupt and i think the poster was talking about after they lose gloves with that bonus (not sure if its being removed in the patch)
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Tommorow and Tommorow and Tommorow creeps in this petty pace, day by day from the last recorded syllable of time. think about it.

#53 Hntar

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 09:57 PM

You're gonna want Shadowdance for 2 dps, it's pretty amazing burst, with 2 dps'ers bursting you can drop nearly anything in 2s with a Shadowdance timed correctly.

Mut: Deadened Nerves isn't good at all, Imp. KS is much better, you're also underestimating Focused Attacks, it's like 30% more Energy regen with good gear.

Combat: Specc needs alot of work, I see alot of shit I'd change, in theory it could work but the specc is just so bloated and you're gonna lack things to make it good no matter what you specc with it at lvl 70, might be better at lvl 80.


Everything I've heard/read says that shadowdance isn't there yet for L70.. but we'll have to take the wait and see approach here. I'll certainly give it a try.

As for saying 3/3 deadened nerves is garbage; if you're mut you'll be playing with a healer... 6% less damage taken is bad for him keeping you up? I can't agree. If you wanted to be as offensive as possible I could see dropping it for imp ks to have max damage (mostly in 3s). But hardly a waste of points.

@ focused attacks.. your number is way off. -assuming you're getting 100% dps time on your target which you won't in most scenarios- you attack the target every ~.75 seconds as daggers (this is counting MH, OH, and specials, and then averaging). The vast majority of these hits are white attacks, and with mut you're probably sitting at around 1/3 crit (for sake of argument). you have increased crit on mut but you only get a mut every 4-6 seconds so that only increases the average very slightly. so we'll say crit is up to 36%. Attacking every .75 seconds @ 36% critrate, you will crit and get 2 energy every 2.7 seconds. Your normal energy regen rate is 20 energy per 2 sec or 10 energy/sec, or 27 energy per 2.7 seconds. 2/27 = .074 = 7.4%

TL,DR: Focused attacks increases a PvP mut rogue's energy regen by ~7-8 %, assuming that the mut rogue has 100% dps time on the target (big assumption to make). Worth it? You decide.


edit: oh and - that 7-8% number was BEFORE factoring in opponents' resil. So it would probably drop down to 5% or something assuming the rogue can stick to a target. Pretty negligible. It is a PvE talent.

Edited by Hntar, 13 October 2008 - 10:02 PM.

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#54 Rotflesh

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Posted 13 October 2008 - 11:04 PM

http://wotlk.wowhead...Ze0ddhhddVzAcRx

5/5/51 no shadowdance, 5 min prep and 30 energy hemos
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#55 jojobombiest

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 12:19 AM

http://wotlk.wowhead...ZcbfbhGkdAzAcRt

7/0/54 ambush spec with shadowdance is gona be crazy burst dps especially with my s4 dagger and playing as mage/rogue :)
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#56 Faile

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 01:47 AM

no, you take DT for the interupt m8, its being removed from gloves, if you dont spec into it you lose the interupt and i think the poster was talking about after they lose gloves with that bonus (not sure if its being removed in the patch)

No, you idiot, it's 3.0 specc thread, nothing's being removed: http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=35032

Stop talking about WotLK.
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i say bring it on blizzard, is that all you've got


#57 Faile

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 01:48 AM

http://wotlk.wowhead...Ze0ddhhddVzAcRx

5/5/51 no shadowdance, 5 min prep and 30 energy hemos

If you have 51 points in ShS in the first place, not taking Shadow Dance is just stupid.
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i say bring it on blizzard, is that all you've got


#58 Faile

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 01:51 AM

http://wotlk.wowhead...ZcbfbhGkdAzAcRt

7/0/54 ambush spec with shadowdance is gona be crazy burst dps especially with my s4 dagger and playing as mage/rogue :)

Shadow Dance isn't affected by MoS so it's only gonna benefit from a Vanish->Ambush(unless you plan on opening with Ambush >_>), and Camo's definitely not worth it over RS :(
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i say bring it on blizzard, is that all you've got


#59 jojobombiest

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 01:58 AM

Shadow Dance isn't affected by MoS so it's only gonna benefit from a Vanish->Ambush(unless you plan on opening with Ambush >_>), and Camo's definitely not worth it over RS :(


Oh, dangit. I'll have to shift some things around but ambush spec is going to be fun, that's for sure ;)

edit: maybe ill try this http://wotlk.wowhead...ZebbdhGddVzAbRt

Edited by jojobombiest, 14 October 2008 - 02:07 AM.

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#60 kireiray

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Posted 14 October 2008 - 03:40 AM

As rogue/rogue we're going to try playing:

http://wotlk.wowhead...bubZe0ddhhddVzh

Huge damage upgrade from SS, just loss of poison abilities might be kinda bad. Riposte for those games against other rogue/rogues where it's left to a 1v1. Nerves of steel will be HUGE vs other rogue teams now. 2x Imp Sprint and at least 2/5 precision so I won't have to gem a 10 hit in slayers. Not sure about expertise and where to put those other points, so i'm thinking of possibly going mace mh / sword oh.
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