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Official 3.0 rogue spec thread


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#21 Occulte

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 09:24 PM

Sorry, I found the answer to (5). Looks like Honor Among Thieves is what people are talking about, and a tad too deep in Sub to have with Mutilate. :-P
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#22 mirag

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Posted 09 October 2008 - 10:46 PM

Can someone please help me out here? I'm really confused by some of these builds and maybe I am just overestimating some of these talents. Sorry, as this post might be a little long.


Many of the specs here just doent make sense or are flat out bad.

1) Almost none of these builds have Focused Attacks. Am I really off my rocker, or should this not be a staple in mutilate builds? I have played on the PTR, and you are constantly getting that to proc you some energy back. Hasn't that always been one of mutilate's biggest drawbacks? Energy starvation?


I agree the talent is very nice but the problem is that the assasinationtree is so floaded with very nice talents thats almost must have.

2) Vile Poisons. If I remember correctly wound is a single debuff now, not 5 max. Meaning much easier to dispel. Not only do you want them to not be healed for max, but you also need them poisoned for mutilate damage.


Agree its a nobrainer talent if you go down the assasination tree still one of many.

3) Dual-Wield AND Opportunity also scream staple to me for a mutilate build. Remember, we could not have both of these before. This accounts for a huge damage increase.


Correct.
Its a bit sad having to give up 2p from RS for it thought but i think its worth it if you want HfB.

4) Rupture vs Eviscerate. Eviscerate is finally scaling better, and might actually be a legit finisher. If so, do we pump Imp Evis and leave off Blood Spatter? It's pretty tempting to max both Blood Spatter and Serrated Blades. 50% rupture is no joke. So which should we use?


I doent think any of them is worth giving up the other assatalents for if your daggerspec but well i guess you could drop points from leathality or ruthlesness for it.
If your some kind of hemo/ss spec you obviously doent need puncturing wounds.
If you got cooldblood with these kind of specs it makes sense to max out evis and if you doent got CB than well i guess you could go with the bleeddmg.



This is how i would spec lvl 70 mutilate. Atleast if i wanted HfB witch i havent decided yet.
http://wotlk.wowhead...eMsirsId0o0xZhb

Otherwise 43/5/13 with undecided assa fillers...
To many solid talents around for 43 talentpoints but probably this.
http://wotlk.wowhead...sirkczZ0xZtbb0h

This is the build i have felt most comforteble with on ptr and probably will end up specing.
5/5/51
http://wotlk.wowhead...Ze0rdhhddVzAcot

Edited by mirag, 09 October 2008 - 11:21 PM.

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#23 Karzlol

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 05:00 AM

You talk about bad specs then you go 3/5 RS in your first Mut spec, talk about killing smooth play...
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#24 hezz

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 07:19 AM

You talk about bad specs then you go 3/5 RS in your first Mut spec, talk about killing smooth play...

If you want HfB, you can't get 5/5 RS since DW specc and Opportunity are superior.
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#25 Wubs

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 07:38 AM

This is the build i have felt most comforteble with on ptr and probably will end up specing.
5/5/51
http://wotlk.wowhead...Ze0rdhhddVzAcot


Do you guys think some variation of shs-hemo is actually viable against healers in 3.0? I am mainly talking about resto shamans and resto/restokin druids. Was dueling some friends on the ptr and it was extremely difficult to bring down a resto shaman with riptide and stuff, then tried mutilate on a friends rogue and was a lot more manageable.

I got this character to 70 halfway through s4 so never really had enough points to buy multiple weapons (still using s2 offhand). Debating atm whether to try returning my MH sword so I have enough points for the MH dagger instead.
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#26 Faile

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:34 AM

As double dps and vs Priests, otherwise you're screwed.
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i say bring it on blizzard, is that all you've got


#27 mirag

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 10:53 AM

Do you guys think some variation of shs-hemo is actually viable against healers in 3.0? I am mainly talking about resto shamans and resto/restokin druids. Was dueling some friends on the ptr and it was extremely difficult to bring down a resto shaman with riptide and stuff, then tried mutilate on a friends rogue and was a lot more manageable.

I got this character to 70 halfway through s4 so never really had enough points to buy multiple weapons (still using s2 offhand). Debating atm whether to try returning my MH sword so I have enough points for the MH dagger instead.


Mutilate is indeed mutch better vs restoshamans but the 5/5/51 spec is atleast vastly superior than current shadowstep and mutilate is a compleate nightmare vs 3.0 mages so i think it works both ways.

Cheat death is also a lifesaver.
If you get cought in a HoJ or Deep freeze with trinket down your pretty mutch dead without it.
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#28 Emopandah

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 11:30 AM

http://talent.mmo-ch...121050135001200
Thats what ill be going.
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#29 Nea

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 02:28 PM

I tested my build on PTR and the only thing I'd change now is maybe Imp. Eviscerate into Lethality, because at 70 and < 1700 AP Eviscerate still isn't very good (better than before but not great). Focused Attacks is really good and so is Master Poisoner. I'm pretty sure I'll keep 1/2 Murder and 0/3 FW.
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#30 Daize

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Posted 10 October 2008 - 03:51 PM

Going to force my rogue try out http://wotlk.wowhead...MbVobdZe0fdI0dd. HARP still does the job for 2v2 (burstwise). Even though losing the mace stuns is annoying, with the pimped talents out I believe harp can cover up for that loss. More energy regeneration, and while having great burst, on the defense harp has become even better with riposte easily available, and the better setup.
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#31 Calbrena

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 10:48 AM

I'll be going HARP maces.

Edited by Calbrena, 11 October 2008 - 10:55 AM.

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#32 Tryptic

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Posted 11 October 2008 - 10:59 PM

I'll be going HARP maces.


why maces? they're taking out mace stun
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#33 Aasgeir

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 04:07 AM

I think people are underestimating combat, the insane energy regen, great burst with AR/BF/KS and undodgeable kidney shots <3

gonne specc like this i think:
http://talent.mmo-ch...000000000000000
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#34 Arçoth

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 08:57 AM

http://wotlk.wowhead...eMsiMoIzZ0xZebb

this is my first time looking at the talent calc or the changes(quit wow since 3rd week of season 4) but this looks like a very solid mut build.

Why did they take out the positional thing with mutilate? thats really what defined daggers and it was in no way unbalanced.
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#35 kireiray

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 09:45 AM

http://wotlk.wowhead...bZe0ddhhddVzA0o

You won't want to give up shadowstep just yet.
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#36 Anwar

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 10:27 AM

how does honor among theives work? do you gain a CP when you crit? or only others in the group?

Edited by Anwar, 12 October 2008 - 10:35 AM.

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#37 drumbum

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 10:49 AM

how does honor among theives work? do you gain a CP when you crit? or only others in the group?


The talent reads "anyone in your group", and yes, you are in your own group. They could probably word it better, though.
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#38 Barracuda

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 11:15 AM

Let's keep it simple http://wotlk.wowhead...xZe0ddhhddVzA0R
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#39 Dint

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 11:37 AM

I played around on the test realm, mutilate's burst is pretty damn insane now. However, I think I might stick with shadowstep for a while.

A big problem though with shadowstep I found was with wound only being one debuff, it is easily dispelled and you don't have a choice when you need it back on your target. It's obviously essential you have wound mh and crippling offhand when playing as shadowstep, so you only have 2 poison debuffs on your target, which dissappear very quickly against a druid or a shaman (even with vile poisons).

When speccing mut, Deadly Brew is nice because you can go Deadly mh and wound offhand. So not only do you get the shield from the deadly poisons, protecting your wounds, but you also get the extra crip on there. So if you stack all your poisons you can get 5 deadlys, 1 wound, 1 crip, 7 poisons is going to make it hard for poison cleansing classes to get that wound off, and if it does drop off, it's only a shiv away...

Plus you get cold blood envenom against warriors/druids/pallys which is a bonus. The only downfall is if you are forcing a trinket, you have to wait for your deadly poisons to fall off (or envenom them and hope it doesn't proc another deadly :P) then blind. I just find having deadly poison on messes with my gouges/blinds a bit too much which can be very frustrating. Might just be I need to learn the playstyle a bit more.

I think Deadly Brew is really the only thing making me want to play mut at the moment, the burst is nice, but the mobility still sucks and I don't want to be kited around every match I play...

I'm eager to hear other peoples thoughts, because I can't quite make up my mind as of yet.
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#40 Anwar

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Posted 12 October 2008 - 03:18 PM

imho mutilate is the way to go, im gonna go http://wotlk.wowhead...xZe0ddhhddVzA0R if i go with a non-dagger spec, and as a dagger spec http://wotlk.wowhead...MsiMocuZ0xZeb0b , i have swords atm so im gonna go with the combat one and then see if its worth the change to muti, the only drawback as combat that i can see is that if your not playing with a priest or some form of dispeller it could be easy to kite you since very little poisen skil and very little escaping manouvers.

in muti i really dont think hfb is even close to as good as -30sec cd on cloak -1min on blind and vanish and 25 energy on finisher (allowing another muti in that kidney)
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