Jump to content

Photo

[Priest/Rogue] Priest/Rogue vs Enhance Shaman/resto druid


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#21 Romalaven

Romalaven
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Spinebreaker
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 37
  • Talents: Enhancement

Posted 09 October 2008 - 05:10 AM

Ah, dunno what kind of teams you've met but for disc/rogue to go on shaman with 14k armor who actually gets to hit your priest, which any decent enhance/druid team would be able to, you're not going to win the mana war. Rogue does too litle on shielded enhance shaman and with half duration cripple and double cleansing, he's going to be shiving ALOT to keep him slowed, which further reduces damage. Include cyclone on rogue and entangle if priest runs too far, or cyclone on priest when he gets too far away from the shaman and shaman WILL be on the priest if they put their mind to it.

And any double dps team with rogue is easy for enhance/druid simply because double poison cleanse will allow for alot of full healing received and shadowpriest wont live long if they leave the shaman alone, same with warlock.
But guess you're going to have to try your way forward. Seems you people met alot of retarded druid/enhance though.

When you pick a tactic to run against a comp you shouldn't include the fact that they might be retarded and you might get a free win going for the wrong target, even if it may work against some of the teams. You should look at both teams full capabilities and assume they both play as good as they are allowed by their class, and play the game accordingly. If you then find out they are retarded, you will have an easy win either way you play it.
Out of personal experience, having 480 resilience in shield (with relic resilience shock proc) and 14k armor and 10% block if I turn to target, I've found tanking melees are one of the easier tasks in arena as enhance, and my druid has no problem whatsoever keeping me up against warriors or rogues, or double dps for that matter. They HAVE to switch for my druid or they will lose with 100% probability.


I find it amusing you talk about expecting both teams to be playing at full capability but you fail to mention that the priest actually may be doing something besides standing there and that the rogue might be doing something besides auto swinging.

The priest WILL be running at your druid attempting to fear and mana burn him, so i dont see him getting a ton of cyclone/roots on either players of the other team + the fact that roots can be dispelled and i hope the rogue has the druid on focus to cloak a key cyclone. Like i said, both slowing effects a shaman can use are able to be dispelled and are on a cooldown. Mixed with the fact that if he frost shocks, now he cant earth shock for 6 seconds. You say a shaman will be spamming tremor if the druid gets feared, but there are a couple things called communication and timing. like kidney shotting when the priest gets a fear?

I have a shaman with full venge/brutal for enhancement and even when i throw up a shield you aren't invincible or anything you still take in a good amount of damage. With the little amount of control you have on the priest he is going to be throwing up shadow word pains and they can even drag you behind a pillar and mind blast you. You say it's hard to keep the shaman off of your priest, but it really isn't there is kidney shot and the constant proccing of crippling poison. Sure you may dispel it but in the second or so that you are waiting for that to happen the priest could get around a corner and you could get kidney shotted.

Also a priest should be killing these totems unless they are retarded and enhancement shaman don't have a ton of mana. Yes they have water shield, but if they are spamming these totems and purge they can still get low.
  • 0

#22 Ragozi

Ragozi
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Dragonblight
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 41
  • Talents: Blood

Posted 09 October 2008 - 05:40 AM

its pretty easy to ride up and melee a tremor totem...and then fear the druid...happens alot.
  • 0

#23 Venetaa

Venetaa
  • Members
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Vashj
  • Whirlwind
  • Posts: 297
  • Talents: Restoration

Posted 09 October 2008 - 09:55 AM

Tremmor apparently pulses from one side of the arena to the other.
  • 0

#24 psyhawk

psyhawk
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • US-Crushridge
  • Cyclone
  • Posts: 334
  • Talents: Destruction

Posted 09 October 2008 - 10:07 AM

no but it has a 30 yard range. also take into consideration your druid would be somewhere between 26-40 yards for cyclone /healing. if the priest is going for fears and burns on the druid the whole game he gets wrecked by the shaman b/c the druid is able to cc the rogue off the shaman so much easier + root spam/ dps the priest.
the fight is pretty favorable towards the enhance/druid team assuming the druid is restokin imo, unless the rogue is combat or mutilate.
  • 0

#25 Snuttefarfar

Snuttefarfar
  • Members
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • EU-Mazrigos
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 17
  • Talents: Elemental

Posted 09 October 2008 - 07:02 PM

I find it amusing you talk about expecting both teams to be playing at full capability but you fail to mention that the priest actually may be doing something besides standing there and that the rogue might be doing something besides auto swinging.

The priest WILL be running at your druid attempting to fear and mana burn him, so i dont see him getting a ton of cyclone/roots on either players of the other team + the fact that roots can be dispelled and i hope the rogue has the druid on focus to cloak a key cyclone. Like i said, both slowing effects a shaman can use are able to be dispelled and are on a cooldown. Mixed with the fact that if he frost shocks, now he cant earth shock for 6 seconds. You say a shaman will be spamming tremor if the druid gets feared, but there are a couple things called communication and timing. like kidney shotting when the priest gets a fear?

I have a shaman with full venge/brutal for enhancement and even when i throw up a shield you aren't invincible or anything you still take in a good amount of damage. With the little amount of control you have on the priest he is going to be throwing up shadow word pains and they can even drag you behind a pillar and mind blast you. You say it's hard to keep the shaman off of your priest, but it really isn't there is kidney shot and the constant proccing of crippling poison. Sure you may dispel it but in the second or so that you are waiting for that to happen the priest could get around a corner and you could get kidney shotted.

Also a priest should be killing these totems unless they are retarded and enhancement shaman don't have a ton of mana. Yes they have water shield, but if they are spamming these totems and purge they can still get low.



I didn't realize you'd be stupid enough to assume the priest standing still and rogue auto-swinging unless I said exactly what they would be doing. I assumed you knew what a priest will try to do in an arena and every single ability a rogue has to work with. Yes, they can fear the druid, but that would mean the rogue would have to hold off with kidney shot untill the rare occasion that the priest will catch the druid which means he wont be doing alot of stuns. Also whenever the priest would corner a pillar I'd hide a tremor behind there so it's not in the open and unless the rogue goes back to take it and the priest magically finds a way to the druid with me slowing him with frostshock/frostbrand, the fear will fail even then. I know he can dispel frost shock and frostbrand is a procc but even so, frost shock will close the distance between me and him and frostbrand will eventually procc. So let's assume the rogue have kidney ready with 5 cpts and shaman have no trinket or tremor down and priest manage to catch the druid, any non-crapass druid would switch to bear so fast I doubt you'd get to manaburn him ever this way.

Nobody is invincible in a shield but that's hardly the point, you'll increase your armor by almost the double and resilience with at least 50-60 if you're in merciless-vengeful shield/relic. And if you die behind a pillar because they kited you there and you went in with low hp, you deserve to die. No, don't say it's easy to burst down, cause it's not. You should be 70-80% hp at the time normally and with hots up there's no way they can burst you down from there in a shield. If you have lower than that or if you sense that they might be able to burst you down behind a pillar, you don't go in there, simple as that, untill your druid is ready for it.

Bottomline is, priest is gonna have to do most of the damage if you want to do down the shaman, since the even damage from the rogue is not gonna cut it and the druid wont be wasting much mana to heal through it, unless the rogue is mutilate or packing an insane amount of pve gear, talking like 100 resilience 2500 AP amount of pve gear. And when the shaman gets to be on the priest (I say when, not if) he's gonna be spending even more mana for his own safety than while he was nuking and you wont win the manawar unless you manage to cc the druid very good and manaburn. And good luck with that. And thinking a shaman would run oom with a rogue on his back? Please. I'd say you never played enhancement in arena with talk like that.

I still claim try both tactics and see what works for you. I know I'd not lose to a rogue/priest that would stick on me the entire game unless my druid screws up badly. I would however have a hard time to help my druid if I'm feared and blinded and sapped. Fear is not hard for a priest to do if he's fearing the shaman himself, but if he's gonna fear a teammember of the shaman, it's gonna be alot harder.

And tremor is 40yards, not 30. Do your homework.

Edited by Snuttefarfar, 09 October 2008 - 07:17 PM.

  • 0

#26 Romalaven

Romalaven
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Spinebreaker
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 37
  • Talents: Enhancement

Posted 09 October 2008 - 08:12 PM

Regardless, I find that sticking to the shaman is the best strat. We can discuss the possibilities forever but it all comes down to how good the people are and how they actually play.
  • 0

#27 Snuttefarfar

Snuttefarfar
  • Members
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • EU-Mazrigos
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 17
  • Talents: Elemental

Posted 09 October 2008 - 09:13 PM

I thank you for not bringing on a wall of text like myself ^^
And I agree, everyone have to figure their own playstyle out. When I play mage/rogue on either my mage or my rogue we find glueing to the warrior vs war/shaman is the absolute easiest way to go for us, it's almost always a win for us. I know it's an easy comp for mage/rogue to face but even so we ran into problems when going for the shaman. Also there's a good chance they will expect you going for the shaman since it seems to be the general tactic.

If these teams collide I guess the better players and not the better setup/strategy would win.
  • 0

#28 Algrumm

Algrumm
  • Members
  • Trollclass_name
  • US-Ravenholdt
  • Whirlwind
  • Posts: 3,898
  • Talents: Protection

Posted 09 October 2008 - 09:20 PM

rogue opens on shaman, priest mounts and fears druid...pi yourself and spam smites into the shaman...he'll get HELLA low hp...if u do it right, druid will trinket...if he doesnt, gnite shaman. burn EVERYTHING you got to kill the shaman...and everytiem your fear is off cd use it on the druid...as soon as he trinkets blind him...gg.


tremor totem says hello.
  • 0

#29 virtua

virtua
  • Junkies
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Arthas
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 1,497
  • Talents: Elemental ./././././.
  • RBG: 1986

Posted 09 October 2008 - 10:28 PM

basically playing with a shaman entails an insane druid, its like playing with a broken leg, and i suggest using a push matrix of lock/dru/shm, if you want to run shm in 3's.

i also suggest 5/5 totem mastery and binding totemic recall, for various other reasons, but if you REALLY want to conserve mana and they keep hitting your tremors you may consider sacraficing a global on totemic recall, if you can afford it ( you can in the lock/dru/shm matrix)
  • 0

#30 Romalaven

Romalaven
  • Members
  • Orcclass_name
  • US-Spinebreaker
  • Rampage
  • Posts: 37
  • Talents: Enhancement

Posted 10 October 2008 - 04:37 AM

I play my shaman as resto generally and mage rogue has to be the gayest team ever. They can pretty much go for either of you as long as they land their CC's...CS during a cast = gg. Its very frustrating
  • 0

#31 Pedocows

Pedocows
  • Validating
  • Taurenclass_name
  • US-Magtheridon
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 983
  • Talents: Restoration

Posted 10 October 2008 - 05:07 AM

Okay, I'm entering the retard thread.

Any team with a rogue and a healer is a uphill battle for enhancement/dreamstate.

Frostbrand on offhand? LOL. It's 25%. And you're losing how much damage? I don't even need to do the math.

The rogue sits on the shaman the entire game. If the rogue is any decent he will never get a burst opportunity on the priest to actually gib him unless the priest is oom with no cooldowns.

Fearing > mana burning and trying to gib the shaman is out of the question since a good shaman will break fear the second his partner is afflicted.

Apparently some of you don't know the mechanics of tremor totem.
Tremor PULSES THE INSTANT YOU DROP IT. You can't fear his partner and then wait until the shaman drops it to kill it and expect the druid to still be feared.

ANYWAY, just sit on the SHAMAN the entire game while keeping the druid in combat, you probably won't even need to drink.
  • 0

#32 Deccard

Deccard
  • Members
  • Gnomeclass_name
  • EU-Die Silberne Hand
  • Blutdurst
  • Posts: 1,367
  • Talents: Affliction

Posted 10 October 2008 - 07:46 AM

The rogue sits on the shaman the entire game. If the rogue is any decent he will never get a burst opportunity on the priest to actually gib him unless the priest is oom with no cooldowns.

He doesn't need to get a burst opportunity, because the :priest: runs oom in a few minutes.
Because of your :druid:, the :rogue: won't touch the :shaman: enough to put out any kind of pressure.

I have to agree with CCing :shaman: and attempting to kill the :druid:.
  • 0

#33 Crunx

Crunx
  • Members
  • Blood Elfclass_name
  • US-Skullcrusher
  • Ruin
  • Posts: 4
  • Talents: Shadow

Posted 10 October 2008 - 01:48 PM

how is the druid CCing the rogue... please enlighten me.


roots is instantly dispelled and if you think 10 secs of cyclone is stopping someone you are wrong. if the druid thinks he is smart and bear stuns, inc fear.

even if the fight isnt going anywhere, once they get the shammy oom he cant chain totem drop and poisons + fears will catch up to them allowing for a Gib.
  • 0

#34 Snuttefarfar

Snuttefarfar
  • Members
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • EU-Mazrigos
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 17
  • Talents: Elemental

Posted 10 October 2008 - 01:49 PM

Okay, I'm entering the retard thread.

Frostbrand on offhand? LOL. It's 25%. And you're losing how much damage? I don't even need to do the math.


Ah you obviously never tried this then. How much damage do you lose from never reaching the priest thanks to dispelled frost shock? 25% is more than enough to stick on him and even so, mainhand windfury procc represents most of the windfury damage. Please do the math. And don't call people retarded for being problem solvers for themselves and then sharing it, makes you look like an ass ;)
  • 0

#35 Dranath

Dranath
  • Members
  • Taurenclass_name
  • EU-Shattered Halls
  • Vindication
  • Posts: 32
  • Talents: Restoration

Posted 13 October 2008 - 09:46 AM

Risky tactic: CC the shaman and go for the druid (requires ShS)

Safe tactic: Sit on the shaman, disturb the druid with mana burns/MC whenever you can. Keep yourself topped off! A lucky wf procc brings you down 30-50% instantly. Try fearing the druid as much as possible, despite tremor totem - sometimes the range isn't enough or shaman is stunned and can't drop it. As soon as you get a fear on the druid just help DPS and really you should win. Just watch out for having evasion on CD and shaman switching to rogue. It can happen quickly and painfully.
  • 0

#36 Snuttefarfar

Snuttefarfar
  • Members
  • Draeneiclass_name
  • EU-Mazrigos
  • Reckoning / Abrechnung
  • Posts: 17
  • Talents: Elemental

Posted 14 October 2008 - 04:59 AM

Honestly I don't know why I don't see this setup anymore in arena, only ever see it when I play rogue/mage and never when I play enhance/druid. I'd like to play this one out cause I'm 99% sure most people will think like you and stick on the shaman the whole game, and I'm 70% sure they will lose at the end because of it. We win most of the rogue/restokin due to the fact that the rogue tries to sit on me the whole game; and dispel on entangle is not gonna be enough. Eventually they will oom themself much faster than we will so basically we just need to survive that long, especially if they're trying to play it aggressively as you suggest.
If they try to play it passively like so many tiresome scared newcommers (druid/warrior)(shaman/warrior in occasion) that are looking for long games tend to do, well then my druid will do his best to make sure the priest is not gaining any mana when the rogue gets me in stun and I'll do my best to make sure he doesn't keep his current mana level, and after a long overdue game they will go oom and lose.
Unless they can create a situation for themself where they can do alot of damage onto the shaman with no heals coming in I don't see how they will win with this "easy" tactic. Unless they face "easy" opponents.

I suggest moves such as catching both in a fear and destroying tremor shortly after/before and immediately dispel faerie fire from your rogue, alternatively cloak it and enter stealth to sap one of em. Likely they will trinket but rinse and repeat. And this will be much easier to do if you're on the druid and not the shaman, I guarantee that. If the shaman is in ghost wolf when feared make sure u dispel it right after the fear so he can be sapped. It's harder to sap a druid since he's likely to stay in bear if priest gets near to fear, to avoid mana burns, hence no sap onto the druid.
You're not likely to win this game by outlasting or by burst, but by exploiting your CC and eliminating their.

Edited by Snuttefarfar, 14 October 2008 - 05:02 AM.

  • 0




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<