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#1 Chonson

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 07:04 AM

So with the changes to Aspect of the Viper, there is no need to have 1hers enchanted with int anymore, right?
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#2 Finaroth

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 07:06 AM

Meh, I wouldn't go that far but sure.

Can still use them to increase mana pool and change time between viper swaps.
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#3 clodu

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 07:23 AM

I think is no longer needed, we can finaly use 2h with agility on them :)
Imagine for exaample u can do like 10 k damage (50 % of the damage done) in 10-20 sec in Wotlk and get back 10 k mana then switch to hawk and bum bum again :P
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#4 Breadstic

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 07:47 AM

I think it will really depend on the team your playing
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#5 XG08Zero

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 03:34 PM

you can't assume anything without really trying it once the xpac goes live. many many things will change - a number of them outside of just our own hunter class changes.

as far as this change, by theory it's still up in the air. We still have the GCD of aspects to deal with (unless they changed it haven't been keeping up). The bigger mana pool you have, the less you will have to waste those valuable GCD's to switch (and switch back) - and the times spent dealing "reduced" damage. But the counter-argument is there that if you deal more damage while in AotV, then you can reach an acceptable amount of mana sooner, and therefore switch to Hawk "dps" mode.

but really the answer is unsure until we experience the changes for ourselves.
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#6 clodu

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 04:15 PM

Well the thing is that a :hunter: is a physical damage dealer, and it shouldn't have mana problems like rogues and warriors have. I mean while we switch to hawk we put almost no pressure on anyone. And we should actually use stats like agility / atack power rather then intellect.

I see this change as a very good one for hunter's and is not like omfgwtfOP, is a decent change. In pvp players will have lot of mitigation due to resilence and it will be a while until u can get your mana back , if a player kite's u as well. And besides that the guy was talking about current state i think :) not what it will be.
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#7 Huntertank

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 05:56 AM

You can still go longer without having to switch to AotV, and the attack power loss from putting on 30 int is really small, especially since Careful Aim will be moved down in the new talent trees.
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#8 Levidian

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 01:42 PM

60AP & 900mana vs 40agi basically come 3.0

So like 40ap and like 1% crit vs 60ap 900 mana.

Won't be a large difference either way.

Makes me wonder if the down ranking changes will go in with 3.0 and things like the mana changes on wingclip, the extra mana might not be too bad. We're still going to be tearing though mana extremely fast with hawk on.
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#9 Wily

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 02:10 PM

Well the thing is that a :hunter: is a pshihycal damage dealer, and it shouldn't have mana problems like rogues and warriors have. I mean while we switch to hawk we put almost no presure on anyone. And we should actualy use stats like agility / atack power rather then intellect. I see this change as a very good one for hunter's and is not like omfgwtfOP , is a decent change. In pvp players will have lot of mitigation due to resilence and it will be a while until u can get your mana back , if a player kite's u as well. And besides that the guy was talking about curent state i think :) not what it will be.


It's fine if they remove Mana from hunters, but that would mean they need to shave their dmg a bit and remove every spell which causes something else than physical effects. Stings, Traps, you get the picture.
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#10 Elraen

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 07:08 PM

Enh does not depend upon mana to do damage (Ok, so you need 100ish to do a full rotation in arena, and you have WS up 24/7).

Ret is broken, yes.

Hunters are a CLASS, those are offspecs.


That's just like saying hunters don't HAVE to use mana to attack =/

With the addition of Maelstrom Weapon, shaman will be doing a lot more casting.

Either way- enh shaman (and ret pallies) rely on their mana just as much as hunters do...especially now that downranking costs the same as max rank (ie-off-shocking, downranking totems)...just because they only have 2 direct attacks (shocks and stormstrike) that cost mana doesn't mean they rely on their mana any less than hunters do to function in arenas.

Calling them "offspecs" is really short-sighted. Just because it's a DIFFERENT spec doesn't mean it doesn't deserve to be just as viable as another spec or class. It exists, it has a PvP set-it should be viable.

@Wily: If you did take away mana from hunters, you wouldn't have to remove traps, stings, or anything from hunters. Stings are already considered poisons. Rogues use shiv, which costs energy, to apply poisons. Stings could just cost energy. Traps could simply be considered physical entities. That would be GREAT for hunters since they could no longer be cleansed.
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#11 Craton

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 04:49 AM

Now, to get back to the actual question: it's going to depend too much on how abilities change for all classes and how the numbers end up to make any judgments yet.
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#12 Elraen

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 06:47 AM

I think the new viper change really just opens the door to using a 2-hander more-Hawk when we're over 50% mana and trying to go for the kill, Viper when we're on the defensive, have one target CCd and need to build back up for the kill.

Edited by Tyveris, 04 September 2008 - 11:22 PM.
Taking out the derailment.

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#13 Tyveris

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 11:24 PM

A lot of this thread was removed.
1) Stop with the personal attacks. If it keeps up, expect bans, my patience is very thin atm.
2) This thread had nothing to do with hunter representation vs enhancement shaman representation. Please don't turn it into that again as proved to be completely unproductive.
3) Use the report button instead of feeding the derailment and flaming.

Thanks :)
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#14 Supahfly

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 11:55 PM

Personally... I think we dont need em anymore since.. we got the new change with gaining omg 1000000 mana in like 10 seconds... So.. 2h with 35 agi and hawk GO GO
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#15 XG08Zero

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 06:51 AM

relatively new update that i found

Aspect of the Viper Changes
We're going to be changing it so that procs/hits restore a % of your base mana each time you hit, rather than base it off your actual DPS/damage. While the return of mana based on your actual damage numbers do make the ability a lot of fun (at least I thought so!), it has bad scaling issues.

no changes yet but it seems they are intending to change it. Honestly I would say the dmg = manareturned Aspect of Viper is a bit overpowered, as it scales exponentially...

Say you are literally at 0 mana. One auto-shot would restore about 400 mana in average gear (megatf was hitting around 350 in gear that would be considered "obsolete" by level 80). After you get 400 mana, you can fire off an arcane, multi, etc...and the damage from those abilities add to your mana pool, largely overcoming the cost of the abilities. The mana regen scaling might be a bit too much around level 80. We don't know how hard we will hit in level80 pvp/raid gear, but the inverse exponential scaling could get out of hand when megatf already regens 350-400 PER HIT (more mana = more hits).

I'm hoping they don't give us a proc based regen for AotV. Last thing I want is mana regen based off of RNG.

edit- I didn't do any real math behind this though. too tired/late, but this is just a thought

Edited by XG08Zero, 05 September 2008 - 06:53 AM.

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#16 Tammyaway

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Posted 05 September 2008 - 07:41 AM

I thought that was the whole point, that hunters shouldn't be mana reliant anymore and are able to regen mana quickly.

I expect them to change viper but keep the mana regen rate similar to what it was when it gave us 100% of damage done back.
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