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[2v2] Pal/War 2k+... how the hell?


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#1 Badpanda

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 05:15 AM

Heya, I did some 2's as Holy with my Warrior friend today cause his usual partner is away for a bit. I have to admit I'm not very experienced with the setup but I think I have good knowledge of what I should be doing - I can keep attention of the other team's cooldowns and position pretty well as well as the good time to switch and burst someone.

After doing ~100 games, we've been stuck at 1850 and simply cannot get over 1900. Either I'm getting oom, or I get CC'ed and my Warrior dies. I know I'm making a few mistakes here and there, but nothing too drastic - it's only because I lack good practice and I'm more used to the Ret playstyle. It's pretty stupid how often I've been CC'ed for 15-25 seconds while being completely unable to do anything. Once my bubble is down, it's very difficult for me to do anything but heal, I'm always trying to catch up. Sometimes my war can be at 70%, a fear gets through and it's over for us (fear/fear/cyclone/cyclone/charge/bash/silence).

I'm completely at loss as to what else I should be doing. I've noticed that games that we win are games that I try to play offensively, helping my Warrior with stuns and seals, some DPS, but when they start CC'ing me, it's over. After that all I'm doing is trying to catch up on the heals and the only time that can happen is when I use bubble. Basically, I'm quite at loss as to how the hell can people go above 2k with Pal/War. I've watched 2-3 videos of 2.2k+ s3 holy/war teams, and honestly I have no idea what they did more than I did. And I can't say I'm having trouble with this or this setup; I won matches of every setup, but I've lost to druid/war too, for example.

Basically, to all you 2k+ pallies, are there any specific tips you'd have to give? How do you play aggressive while keeping both yourselves up? How do you survive (or avoid) long chains of CC? Anything beyond "lol juke teh silences!" would be appreciated, really.
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#2 Kadrix

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 05:25 AM

Abuse pillars, always put sac up when a poly is incoming, or when you're in danger of getting blinded without a trinket, fake cast a lot. Also, run 4/4.
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#3 Badpanda

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 05:53 AM

I have no PvE gear. :(

Maybe that's why I'm failing? hah.
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#4 Infekt

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 07:46 AM

Pve gear is indeed very helpful, I don't run with 4/4 but I do sacrifice a ton of resilience for healing. You need to avoid mana burns, cycle between freedom/sac as needed to keep yourself from being cc'd while letting your warrior be free to roam, etc. I found that charging up a seal of righteousness and stunning a target that is low and judging with a holy shock is a very effective way to bring an enemy into execute range, or even dead.

Also, having the enemies together by your warrior can be extremely helpful because of sweeping strikes. >_> Don't be afraid to make your warrior go defensive early, thats how you avoid the long cc chains without a death. Anyway, yeah going to bed, hope this helped.
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#5 Rakeash

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 02:52 PM

After pillar abuse and HoJ, it's up to your warrior to prevent CC (that you can't BoSac out of). It takes a very aware warrior and good synergy between the two of you (you have to know what the other needs all the time).





Oh.. and you have to hope you don't run into too many counter comps.... And no good warrior/paladin video exists in the world.

Edited by Rakeash, 01 September 2008 - 02:55 PM.

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#6 Caligula

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 04:24 PM

CC avoidance is the most important thing as others said.

This obviously means pillars and BoSac, but also staying out of range when possible (priest fears, warlock fears, intercepts, earth shocks, cyclones etc all have pretty short range compared to your heals). Staying mounted until you know what position the opposing team will attack from is very helpful.
4/4 would be ideal but even two parts tier 6 in an otherwise full PvP set is also huge.

Also, vial of the sunwell is leet. That 2k instant heal isn't huge but it definitely helps fill a gaping hole that holy shock doesn't fix by itself.


Those videos you saw might have been from terribad battlegroups - I watched one where the paladin was total CRAP and I almost cut myself after watching it... they played against paladin/warlock where the warlock didn't dot the warrior, use curse of tongues or fear.. and they almost lost. 2.1k! I've seen a few good holy paladin healing videos (mostly paladin/hunter videos for some reason) but none of them are with warrior :(
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#7 Zaragoorn

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 04:39 PM

The trick is to play offensive. You will generally never outmana a druid. A coordinated nuke on a druid after his NS and trinket is down= dead druid, atleast with abit RNG powah. Remember, a holy paladin has an insane burst with AW!

It's also a very important factor that you work together. Your warrior cant run around like a berzerker hitting everything, if he's LoSing your heals you're kinda fucked. To make this combo work you obviously also need to fakeheal alot, and sometimes intervening blinds/cheapshots/kidneyshots can win a game which you normally would lose. (mage/rogue)
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#8 Badpanda

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 04:58 PM

So far I'm having very little trouble with double DPS unless they get lucky. I can heal through their initial burst in my bubble and by the time it's gone we usually have the edge over them. Concerning CC I'll have to tell my Warrior that, I'll also try to be a little bit more proactive on the Sacrifices. We've been playing together (3's) for about 8 months now so we do have a very good communication and teamwork, I think it's just a matter of making absolutely zero mistakes on our part.

I also remember a Paladin at 2.2k who said to use EotM as your trinket (currently scarab) and to try to burst someone asap to give yourself and edge over the other team. Do you think that's a good idea? My War kinda laughed and said "yea good idea that way the druid puts lifebloom, our dps is useless and you're oom".

Thanks for the help, obviously anything else would be appreciated, along with answers from people above 2k ^^
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#9 spoohne

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 06:21 PM

Against Mages, use sacrifice Mid-Poly. When there is a rogue on you, you need to freedom kite.

Dont Tunnel vision druids. Attack when they make a mistake or are easily accessible.

Lose against Druid/lock.

Lose against Druid/Hunter.

Kill priests. Always. Without Fail.

Beat all teams that have a warrior on them. If you don't you'll never hit 2k.

You need to have your feet planted to heal, priests/druids dont. Don't allow yourself to fall behind by being aggressive.

Warrior has to be aware of his ability to intervene behind shit so you can LoS a counter-spell or fear to heal him.

4pc 30%+ Holy Shock > PvE gear IMO. If you have to sacrifice for it, get it. Holy Shock will often times be the only heal you can ever rely on.

This is just mindless rabbling, but just obvious stuff i keep in mind as 2k+ war/pal
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#10 Rakeash

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 06:44 PM

use EotM as your trinket (currently scarab) and to try to burst someone asap to give yourself and edge over the other team. Do you think that's a good idea?

I don't think EotM is even near as useful as the Vial across all arena games and well-timed burst will make the difference with or without EotM. As for going oom by bursting.. you should definitely only burst when you know, eventually through experience, when it'll really make the difference.

If you're just looking for general paladin tips, you can go to http://www.arenajunk...read.php?t=6991.

Otherwise, there are a lot of warrior/paladin threads in here already where you can find more specific info on comps.

For these questions, there's nothing really magical about it.

How do you play aggressive while keeping both yourselves up?


Heal, dodge interupts, fall back on bubbles when you get too far behind? Only thing to say about this is make sure your warrior doesn't make it any harder on you by LoSing heals.

How do you survive (or avoid) long chains of CC?

Pillar hump, HoJ, BoSac, Vial, and interrupts from your warrior.

Might be better to ask questions specific to teams you're losing against.

Edited by Rakeash, 01 September 2008 - 06:52 PM.

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#11 clicker

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 02:31 AM

you must outplay the opponents by several magnitudes but lose every game to those with an iq above 70
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#12 crashed43

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 03:20 PM

^
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#13 Warnipplez

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Posted 03 September 2008 - 12:09 PM

Against druid teams, most of the time you're generally killing the druid. Make sure to keep justice up and rejudge once he trinkets. Also make sure to stun him in humanoid form when he's low so your warrior can get a nice big execute off.

Going for the druid allows you to not be CC'd by him IE Cyclone/Cyclone/Charge/Bash/ More cyclone.

Druid/Hunter is by far the hardest because of the hunter's frost trap and his ability to drain mana without casting. The two ways to fight that is to kill the scorpid pet or kill the druid.
-If we kill the hunter, have warrior fill up on rage on the hunter then LoS with the pet and warrior kills pet while paladin stuns the druid. If you're lucky the pet will die and the druid will pop trinket and it will be an easy fight from there. If you're not however you can always make the switch to the druid once he trinkets. If you're unable to do anything just fill up on rage and try again. You have about 3 minutes worth of mana and conserving doesn't help so try and use as much mana as possible.
-If we kill the druid its a pretty simple fight. Keep freedom on your warrior on a frost trap. Its best to cast it once he enters it and if cooldown is done when he is in the frost trap. Make sure to keep justice up and use your bubble offensively (IE running through a frost trap or breaking feral charge snare).

For warlock teams you need to have your warrior not in the open. You need to be near pillar to LoS dots and fears. The most of annoying thing is Curse of Tounges and the only way to avoid it is holy shock and FoL. You may be able to get a holy light off depending on the situation but its best to use holy shock once CoT ends and the warlock is about to reapply it. Other than that it will be a hard fight for you and your warrior.


Here is a guide I wrote a while back. Its still viable because not much has changed during season 3.

http://www.arenajunk...ead.php?t=20004

If you have any questions feel free to PM me.
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#14 Exanimis

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 07:19 PM

spec shockadin?
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#15 Kham

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Posted 04 September 2008 - 07:30 PM

You shouldn't be stuck at 1850 if you are good.

One thing to keep in mind is that your warrior can pillar hump with you if needed. A simple direction to tell your warrior can be, "If you are dying and you aren't sure where to go, follow me." With Hamstring, Pummel, Intervene, Intercept, and your own cooldowns considered, this is far more potent than you probably think it is.

Also, against druid teams... if your warrior is knowledgeable about your class he can probably tell you when to HoJ, give him Blessing of Freedom, help burst down the druid, etc.

Honestly, 2K+ with paladin/warrior isn't that big of a deal if you are both very good. It's rare because most people don't even try to play this combo competitively these days.
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#16 Batman1

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 09:35 PM

Get pro at faking.
If you are ever focused by melee, dont kite. Set your back against something and heal.
Time pummell, HoJ, and fear for a kill setup.
Your burst as a pally is very helpful. Time it well.
It's a lot about the warrior though on this team, he will need to babysit you on most double dps.
Just get good at surviving.
Resil owns for this setup, I don't wear much myself, just started this comp not too long ago.
GL. I should be pushing 2200 with my warrior in the next 3-4 weeks. Cya there
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#17 Vlada

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 09:47 PM

que dodge warlocks and profit?
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#18 Kadrix

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 11:05 PM

PvP gear is overrated for Pally/warrior, I normally wear 4 piece S4 and a pvp trinket and the badge cloak as my only resil.
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#19 Beornoth

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 11:06 PM

PvP gear is overrated for Pally/warrior


No. Everyone who has access to PvE gear has been using it since forever.
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#20 Kadrix

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Posted 09 September 2008 - 11:14 PM

No. Everyone who has access to PvE gear has been using it since forever.


The term "overrated" means made out to be better than it is. Therefore, I am stating PvE gear is better.

Sadly, I've had Paladins try to convince me that full PvP gear is better for Pally/Warrior.
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