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(holy) lvl 70 talents when content patch comes out?


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#41 Blackhalo

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 02:59 PM

30% chance for something to proc for 10 seconds. Think about that.

Last time I checked I don't recall a Druid rooting my partner or myself, and then in a 10 second span try to CC me again.

The only reason why I'd pick up sacred cleansing would be against caster double dps teams and/or lock/x. All in all, I don't think the talent will be as prevalent in 2s rather than 3s and 5s.


Alright I've been trying my best to hold back and not comment but I can't help myself now.

1) priest/rogue, the priest loves to put on shadow word:pain and rogue has poisons. This is one of the better situations for cleanse where it'll remove 2 debuffs at once. Applies to druids as well with Insect Swarm or Moonfire DoT.

2) You mention you'd only use it against double DPS teams and Lock/X teams which is honestly a very high number of teams already. Then you consider that it also helps against say Restokin/Rogue and Priest/Rogue teams and pretty much its good against any non healer/warrior matchup.

3) Hunter drain teams. Their scorpion pet is on you, your cast cleanse until you get the 10 second buff. It's not hard to proc as 30% is quite high of a chance considering the ability is instant cast with no cooldown. Now you can resist his viper sting.

4) There are many tricks/strats you can use to decrease the efficiency/mana cost of cleanse spam. In many scenarios you cast cleanse more than once. Given that fact, the following macro can help

/cast cleanse
/equip AQ40 Libram to Decrease cleanse cost
/equip weapon with spell haste
/equip weapon with spell surge enchant

This macro gets around the recent nerf to weapon swapping. It won't benefit you for teh first cleanse cast but it will benefit you for all subsequent casts. You can also have a macro which reverses all of these equips on the final cleanse.

So you can have a modifier such as shift to cast cleanse #1 and swap in all the cleanse equipment. Then you cleanse spam for a while and on the final cleanse you have a modifier such as CTRL to swap back on all your normal healing gear/librams. Another thing to consider is the talent Purifying Power which may decrease casting cost of cleanse by 10%.

5) Many paladins would agree that Unyielding Faith (10% resist fear/disorient) is a 'must have' 2 talent points. No one has a problem throwing 2 talens just to stop fear/disorient which probably would help in less cases than 30% chance to gain 30% resist on poison/magic/disease. So I don't understand why you are so strongly opposed to spending 3 talent points to help against even more matchups.

6) Death Knights are coming soon and they deal alot with diseases, something which cleanse also helps against.

Lots of the strats take extra effort but that's why paladin is the toughest class to succeed with in 2's. You have to do every little damn thing to gain an advantage.

Edited by Blackhalo, 29 August 2008 - 03:03 PM.

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#42 Rydaa

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 04:42 PM

Another point, that I don't think many will realize if you do go 3/3 imp hammer. Our holy set, and our holy shock set will be nearly identical come 3.0 the major difference is the shock set gets more stam and less int. So you do have the choice of giving up the 30% holy shock for another 10 secs off hammer (bringing it down to 20 sec cd), assuming you even do/want to wear 4 piece arena.
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#43 Vlada

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 04:51 PM

Many paladins would agree that Unyielding Faith (10% resist fear/disorient) is a 'must have' 2 talent points

It will give 30% less duration on fear so its even better.I can imagine my life so much easier vs hunter also with sacred cleansing.
If you are cleansing vs double DPS team and not vs healer+dps then you should go play another game or go faceroll buttons on warlock.If you loose GCD on cleanse vs e.g. SP/rogue you know that can lead to a warrior's death.30% is relly high chance of proc and should be constant up.If it procs on your warrior , you know that for 10 seconds he will be less vurnable to CC from druid.And i can imagine druid's face if he resists cyclone or roots.Also less vurnable on posions vs rogue can help your warrior greatly.
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#44 Blackhalo

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 06:13 PM

It will give 30% less duration on fear so its even better.I can imagine my life so much easier vs hunter also with sacred cleansing.


Hey ya I'm aware of the change. I was emphasizing how people use 2 talent points to aid any fear/disorient matchups yet the op was against putting 3 talent points to aid over 80% (or even more) matchups.

Sacred Cleansing is an absolutely amazing talent imo. Against any team that puts a debuff on you to cleanse, they will soon realize that if they do, they may not be able to reliably CC you. If the lock/shadow priest puts a DoT on you, they have to worry about the next time they want to fear you. Mage touches you with a frost spell, nova/winter's chill? Again worry about not being able to CC you reliably.

This in conjunction with improved fear/disorient/curse duration, reduced Holy Shock duration makes the paladin class:
1) harder to CC
2) more easily recover from a CC chain



Both of which are some of paladin's largest weaknesses right now.

Edited by Blackhalo, 29 August 2008 - 06:19 PM.

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#45 Vlada

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Posted 29 August 2008 - 10:35 PM

Counterspell is and will remain to be our biggest weakness still :P, tho it can be good with sacred cleansing , we can resist few
btw anyone know how sacred shield works, does it make multiple shields every 6 seconds for 30 seconds or it dissapears after 1 absorb?

Edited by Vlada, 29 August 2008 - 11:17 PM.

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#46 Bunbohue

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Posted 30 August 2008 - 12:18 AM

3) Hunter drain teams. Their scorpion pet is on you, your cast cleanse until you get the 10 second buff. It's not hard to proc as 30% is quite high of a chance considering the ability is instant cast with no cooldown. Now you can resist his viper sting.


I've never in my wow career gotten a resist message for viper sting, I don't think it works the same way as rogues, it can, however, miss, but that's only with talents or if I'm not at the hit cap, but I've never seen any kind of resist on viper sting. Scorpid poison I've seen resist though.

I think the idea of buffing cleanse is good, it really needs something. Also, because it's so versatile, you'll be cleansing quite often, whenever you face a rogue, a lock, a mage, a hunter, etc. It's useful against all, but not that great against any hehe.

I know this isn't a suggestion thread, I don't follow pally forums so excuse me if this has been suggested, maybe imp cleanse can have a chance to add a cleanse buff that will work like abolish poison/disease. I think that would be very useful and semi unique I guess. I haven't played beta so I don't know how good sacred cleansing is atm, but I see there's a lot of divided opinions on it.
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#47 Badpanda

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Posted 31 August 2008 - 09:10 PM

Sacred Cleansing is good, but the Ret talents are better. 37/0/24 & 43/0/28 ftw.
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#48 DrunkHobo

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 05:30 PM

http://wotlk.wowhead...phbxGdGVuMIRxVh

i dont see the possibility of any build being better than this one with level 70 talents 3.0 at this time
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#49 Badpanda

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 05:34 PM

http://wotlk.wowhead...dhVuMZZxfMxr00h

I'm pretty sure this will be much, much better.

Still trying to decide between benediction + imp BoW vs 2/5 intellect + imp BoM (with SoL = moar spell power).
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#50 Callia

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Posted 01 September 2008 - 10:10 PM

http://wotlk.wowhead...xhdhVuMIoZVGkhM

I'm thinking that this is the build i'll be using in all brackets. Because shadowplay is going to be so powerful after the patch, I decided that divine guardian is a necessity. Also, I have a feeling sacred cleansing is going to be really really good, so i specced into that also. Please, give me feedback :)
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#51 Neajane

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 04:34 AM

HEY GUYS LETS NOT SPEC INTO THE MACE STUN OF DISPELING

OKAY SOUNDS GOOD
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#52 Badpanda

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Posted 02 September 2008 - 05:00 AM

Yeah actually, I was thinking about it and it sounds pretty OP... vs mage for example, spam cleanse and you can keep the thing up a good portion of the time, resisting a shatter combo could be pretty retarded ^^
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#53 Auvvey

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 12:06 AM

Yeah actually, I was thinking about it and it sounds pretty OP... vs mage for example, spam cleanse and you can keep the thing up a good portion of the time, resisting a shatter combo could be pretty BALANCED LULZ ^^


Fixed for awesome. I dunno, I just see it hard to overpower paladins at this point, so a mace-stun dispell can't be that bad.
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#54 Kanneth

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 07:02 AM

1. Wow, you cant even compare sacred cleansing to mace stun. Thats the dumbest thing i've heard.

2. Sheath of light is absolutely amazing in its current form. Its a rolling hot for one thing and also buffing yourself with AP buffs like might and battle shout increase your spell power by large amounts.

38/0/23 will be the best spec unless they make drastic changes before it goes live. Oh no! you just got a major cc chain and your partner is really low! Crit holy shock + instant holy light (46% crit chance with t6) and you just put a pretty big Hot on your partner on top of the huge heals from shock + HL.

All the talents past infusion of light are pretty mediocre and arent even close to being worth giving up a nice HoT for.

Ps: beacon of light is horrible in its current form.
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#55 Cthuzael

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 07:28 AM

you are missing ONE thing.
in this omfg-cc-chain-my-mate-is-low-situation A CRIT on HS is needed to give you that healing you were talking about (and thats only a ~33% chance). Not to mention that this is the most inefficient way to heal.

i am far from calling RNG cleansing or RNG HS+HLing as OP. it is something that had to be fixed since beginning of S3.

other classes get nice things as lvl80s. paladins are once more (on the current beta state of holy) the ones to see only minor spells.
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#56 Neajane

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 08:08 AM

1. Wow, you cant even compare sacred cleansing to mace stun. Thats the dumbest thing i've heard.

2. Sheath of light is absolutely amazing in its current form. Its a rolling hot for one thing and also buffing yourself with AP buffs like might and battle shout increase your spell power by large amounts.

38/0/23 will be the best spec unless they make drastic changes before it goes live. Oh no! you just got a major cc chain and your partner is really low! Crit holy shock + instant holy light (46% crit chance with t6) and you just put a pretty big Hot on your partner on top of the huge heals from shock + HL.

All the talents past infusion of light are pretty mediocre and arent even close to being worth giving up a nice HoT for.

Ps: beacon of light is horrible in its current form.


blah blah blah rng compared to rng is a valid comparison?

then you go on to theory craft out your butthole, too bad LOLSACREDCLEANSING could have stopped that cc chain on you or your partner captain
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#57 Lotbius

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 02:57 PM

you are missing ONE thing.
in this omfg-cc-chain-my-mate-is-low-situation A CRIT on HS is needed to give you that healing you were talking about (and thats only a ~33% chance). Not to mention that this is the most inefficient way to heal.

i am far from calling RNG cleansing or RNG HS+HLing as OP. it is something that had to be fixed since beginning of S3.

other classes get nice things as lvl80s. paladins are once more (on the current beta state of holy) the ones to see only minor spells.

We have a little something called Divine favor u know, just save it until one of these moments and we will be fine.
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#58 Kanneth

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 03:48 PM

Sacred cleansing is extremely unreliable. First off, you need to be cleansing alot just to have the buff up for any noticeable amount of time. Even when its up it only lasts for 10 seconds and is only 30% chance to resist. Most magic / poison CC's are spammable so even if you do resist the first, chances are the next wont resist or the buff will already be gone.

Sacred cleansing doesnt stop pummel, kick, silence shot, intercept stun, blind, scatter shot, bash, feral charge, gouge, sap, kidney shot, or any other stun. It is incredibly situational especially since VS alot of comps there isnt alot of cleansing that is needed in the first place.

Sheath of light is 100% chance on any crit heal to add a HoT that doesnt over ride itself on a new crit but adds the remaining HoT amount onto the new HoT amount. Last time I checked I heal alot more than I cleanse, I have a higher crit chance than 30%, and I have a talent called divine favor which will give me 100% chance to give me a holy shock + instant HL combo which is comparable to something like nature's swiftness.
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#59 Vlada

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 06:39 PM

30% chance is alot and 30% to resist is alot.So what you saying? resisting sheep or cyclone is bad? or even shatter?You are loosing spell haste and stoicism and few holy talents just to get SoL?With stoicism stacking with Blessed hands and giving it 60% to resist dispel is kinda must for hand of freedom.SoL is nice but all those retribution talents are kinda for only 2v2 bracket where you run and helping the burst, even then i find improved HoJ better.As for 3v3 and 5v5 you are forced to heal and some HoT won't help you with so many dispels and new anti-HoT attacks.
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#60 Neajane

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Posted 08 September 2008 - 07:59 PM

You spec into sheath of light and get your hot dispelled, I'll stick with my haste + stoicism + freedomfuckyoucan'tdispelme
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