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#21 Stopwintrading

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 09:56 AM

Did people forget already that Tom was the 2nd most blatant wintradesniper (after Borugg) last season?

 

:confused:


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#22 Bersihasi

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 03:06 PM

A lot of fishy stuff going on. Like this.

 

PCqSY0G.jpg

 

But seeing how low the participation is no wonder. I just hope the cutoff drops by 10 rating for our shadow teammate.


Edited by Bersihasi, 30 November 2017 - 03:07 PM.

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#23 Jim_Jim

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Posted 30 November 2017 - 06:10 PM

it-crowd-popcorn-go.gif

 

(Buff hpal please, we are trash)


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#24 Melaniatrump

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Posted 01 December 2017 - 02:34 PM

This is the kinda shit that makes Santa not go to the EU fellas. Get your shit together
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#25 huurka

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Posted 02 December 2017 - 12:36 PM

This is the kinda shit that makes Santa not go to the EU fellas. Get your shit together

santa isnt real you fucking cheeseburger american


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#26 TommyW

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Posted 07 December 2017 - 05:52 PM

:confused:

 

:unsure:


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#27 Itsnel

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 12:55 AM

2k18

people still care about titles in wow


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#28 TommyW

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 05:03 AM

2k18

people still care about titles in wow

 

legion titles are the most prestigious and meaningful been as you're fighting vs with players with over a decade of experience


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#29 FeralNisse

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 12:55 PM

legion titles are the most prestigious and meaningful been as you're fighting vs with players with over a decade of experience

OMEGALUL


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#30 Melaniatrump

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 04:24 PM

legion titles are the most prestigious and meaningful been as you're fighting vs with players with over a decade of experience


kappa?
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#31 Bersihasi

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 07:20 PM

legion titles are the most prestigious and meaningful been as you're fighting vs with players with over a decade of experience

 

Also less and less casuals are starting pvp. So average skill becomes higher and you get less titles because there is a lack of foundation. 

 

I know your post might have been sarcastic but you are actually right. Also keep in mind the longer the season the more alts glad/r1 players have. From the 150 R1 titles we got this season we may have only around 50 different players. 


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#32 Braindance

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Posted 08 December 2017 - 09:09 PM

Also less and less casuals are starting pvp. So average skill becomes higher and you get less titles because there is a lack of foundation. 

 

I know your post might have been sarcastic but you are actually right. Also keep in mind the longer the season the more alts glad/r1 players have. From the 150 R1 titles we got this season we may have only around 50 different players. 

Average skills is going down; average skill is not however an indicator of competition. What you got now is like 100 people playing between each other. In more active seasons, particularly  s2 through 4 and s6 through 8, unless you were queuing at 6 am at an obscure battlegroup you would always get different people at any rating and I mean ANY rating. Many of the high caliber players have quit; what's left now is a bunch of the more famous players from back then that still play cause they generate money through streams/Blizzard whatever, and old duelists that got promoted, due to the lack of competition.

 

Another issue is that competition now is defined by fame. You stream? People know you? You're competition. Who knows the name Zamos? Zamos was a dude back in WotLK that did more damage than any other warrior I had seen or known off. He gave Hydra's team problems; I remember playing vs him when I was pushing for glad in s6 and I cannot recall any other time in my long tenure when I was more outclassed. There were many a Zamos back then, players that were not famous (outside of arenajunkies or their BG), that were top level and created competition. Very few of these remain. There used to be legendary battles between the top 10 team at each bracket for rank 1, when it really was rank one. Apart from win trading etc. the quality of the games was just much higher. I cannot compare someone like Zamos to Bahjeera, who has certainly come a long way, but he wouldn't last a second then.

 

You got s2,4 helmets on your account. Can you, with a straight face, tell me that there is more competition now than in s2 or 4? Because even though I came back to this game only two weeks ago I can hardly imagine that.

 

On top of that, what type of competition can this game have anymore? I cannot help but compare how my warrior feels now and how it felt in s6, which I personally consider the pinnacle of skill for warriors. They were overpowered as fuck especially before charge cd was changed to 20 seconds, but there was an elegance in the playstyle and so many things you could do. Take this video for example 

 

 

and compare it to today. Do you think Dahis would have a problem outclassing anyone in the leaderboards right now? Comparing then with today is like comparing a well-orchestrated sword fight with a backstreet brawl at a ratchet club in Detroit.

 

All in all, I am not taking anything from the people that have come a long way and got glad, r1 in this expansion. It takes some effort, some networking and time.The game has some great elements right now, some really bad and some that have a lot of potential but are hastily implemented (that gear % thing per ilvl that removes any ability for customization comes to mind). There was however a period of time that we (meaning me and almost everyone else that played back then) did not appreciate the game with all it's flaws and imbalances, which led to the gradual homogenization and dumbing down of classes that we see today, and the subsequent hemorrhage of high-quality players.


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Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

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#33 Bersihasi

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:01 AM

Average skills is going down; average skill is not however an indicator of competition. What you got now is like 100 people playing between each other. In more active seasons, particularly  s2 through 4 and s6 through 8, unless you were queuing at 6 am at an obscure battlegroup you would always get different people at any rating and I mean ANY rating. Many of the high caliber players have quit; what's left now is a bunch of the more famous players from back then that still play cause they generate money through streams/Blizzard whatever, and old duelists that got promoted, due to the lack of competition.


In BC/WOTLK you had a lot of casuals and new players getting into pvp. Throughout the time the casuals stopped playing and no new blood wants to get into pvp anymore. Meaning you have less casuals for each good player. Therefore the avg. skill would go up. I mean its hard to really argue about something we cant measure yet so i guess we just have different opinions on that.
 

Another issue is that competition now is defined by fame. You stream? People know you? You're competition. Who knows the name Zamos? Zamos was a dude back in WotLK that did more damage than any other warrior I had seen or known off. He gave Hydra's team problems; I remember playing vs him when I was pushing for glad in s6 and I cannot recall any other time in my long tenure when I was more outclassed. There were many a Zamos back then, players that were not famous (outside of arenajunkies or their BG), that were top level and created competition. Very few of these remain. There used to be legendary battles between the top 10 team at each bracket for rank 1, when it really was rank one. Apart from win trading etc. the quality of the games was just much higher. I cannot compare someone like Zamos to Bahjeera, who has certainly come a long way, but he wouldn't last a second then.


I dont feel like thats the case. Nowadays you can only get R1 by being 0.1%. In the past you had BGs with only one R1 and no Glad slot (#1 got both, #2 got duelist) meaning you had less than 200 teams playing. But on these BGs you had 5-10 teams sharing rank1. Thats 2% - 5% of the 5v5 teams getting rank1 instead of 0.1%. The problem is that every BG was different. Most teams shared in 5v5 and played seriously in the 3v3 bracket. But the argument was that titles back then were less prestigous than they are now. And because of the fact that you could get Glad and R1 in 2s and 5s makes titles less prestigious. If the question would be past 3v3 R1 vs. current 3v3 R1 you may be right. But its about all the titles from the past vs. current titles no matter the bracket.
 
About bahjeera. You will always have people that get into glad / r1 range not because of their skill but because of other circumstances. You also had PvE heros getting R1 in the past (even 3v3) because they played shadowmourne dk dbl heal or that one guy multiboxing 4 blood DKs with a healer friend in 5v5. It seems like you are comparing the most competitive BGs back then vs. current ladder. You keep forgetting that you had a lot of shit BGs where getting R1 or Glad was rather easy.
 
So was getting R1 in 3v3 in a very competitive no sharing BG harder than getting R1 now? Yes. Was getting R1 in 2v2/5v5/3v3 in a shit BG harder than it is now? No. Making old titles less prestigious in my opinion. Which was the whole argument.
 
 
 

You got s2,4 helmets on your account. Can you, with a straight face, tell me that there is more competition now than in s2 or 4? Because even though I came back to this game only two weeks ago I can hardly imagine that.
 
On top of that, what type of competition can this game have anymore? I cannot help but compare how my warrior feels now and how it felt in s6, which I personally consider the pinnacle of skill for warriors. They were overpowered as fuck especially before charge cd was changed to 20 seconds, but there was an elegance in the playstyle and so many things you could do. Take this video for example

 
 
I think compared to BC its harder to get glad or r1. But we have way less people playing. So i guess there is less competition but titles are more prestigious? I got glad on my warrior by playing 2v2 to 2.2 so i could buy the shoulders. I didnt go for glad. I just got it. 
 
I think people just stopped playing their classes to a maximum like they did in the past. I get the impression that most players now focus on being good on a lot of classes rather than beeing insane on one class. Really hard to judge. Some classes are easier now some are not. I think healers might have a harder time now.

 At the end the argument was are titles more or less prestigious today vs. past. And because of different BGs and the fact that you could get titles from 2s and 5s make old titles less prestigious. That being said hydras R1 titles are more prestigious than current R1 titles but you cant differentiate betweens hydras R1 and wintrading guy xy R1.


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#34 Jim_Jim

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 11:54 AM

During TBC and Wotlk, it was longer to create another character and gear it. (Less in Wotlk than TBC, because the Vanilla-style of levelling was still there in TBC, sloooooooow - i level up my main paladin in TBC as ret spec, trust me, it was painful.). Especially when PvE gear were dominant at the end.

 

And the mentality was waaaaay different than now. People played what they like (In terms of race/class combination for exemple, it was not surprising seeing a gnome warlock compared to now.), and not what it's the best. And even if Wotlk - despise all my criticism on it - was a bit more open because everything was broken. TBC was really closed in term of arena diversity.

 

Put the mentality of today in TBC meta, and you will see 90% of rdruid/war (mace)/rogue and sl/sl lock. Because those 4 specs were dominant during 3 seasons.

 

That could be a good simulation, to see if the meta in TBC could change if you can have a character as quickly as now. And with how people play now, maybe people would find new things.

 

40/0/21 shockadin was so much fun. The last time having a plate armor was a total threat to melees.

Now rogue have mostly shadow damage, please.


Edited by Jim_Jim, 09 December 2017 - 02:44 PM.

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#35 Siuox

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 12:35 PM

gnome warlock cause of the extra resilience. not everyone wanted to play 2x trinket

 

http://armory.warmane.com/ladder tbc in 2017 4Head


Edited by Siuox, 09 December 2017 - 12:36 PM.

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#36 Melaniatrump

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 07:03 PM

gnome warlock cause of the extra resilience. not everyone wanted to play 2x trinket
 
http://armory.warmane.com/ladder tbc in 2017 4Head


Humans didn’t have every man for himself in bc if that’s what you are getting at.
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#37 Braindance

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 08:27 PM

In BC/WOTLK you had a lot of casuals and new players getting into pvp. Throughout the time the casuals stopped playing and no new blood wants to get into pvp anymore. Meaning you have less casuals for each good player. Therefore the avg. skill would go up. I mean its hard to really argue about something we cant measure yet so i guess we just have different opinions on that.
 


I dont feel like thats the case. Nowadays you can only get R1 by being 0.1%. In the past you had BGs with only one R1 and no Glad slot (#1 got both, #2 got duelist) meaning you had less than 200 teams playing. But on these BGs you had 5-10 teams sharing rank1. Thats 2% - 5% of the 5v5 teams getting rank1 instead of 0.1%. The problem is that every BG was different. Most teams shared in 5v5 and played seriously in the 3v3 bracket. But the argument was that titles back then were less prestigous than they are now. And because of the fact that you could get Glad and R1 in 2s and 5s makes titles less prestigious. If the question would be past 3v3 R1 vs. current 3v3 R1 you may be right. But its about all the titles from the past vs. current titles no matter the bracket.
 
About bahjeera. You will always have people that get into glad / r1 range not because of their skill but because of other circumstances. You also had PvE heros getting R1 in the past (even 3v3) because they played shadowmourne dk dbl heal or that one guy multiboxing 4 blood DKs with a healer friend in 5v5. It seems like you are comparing the most competitive BGs back then vs. current ladder. You keep forgetting that you had a lot of shit BGs where getting R1 or Glad was rather easy.
 
So was getting R1 in 3v3 in a very competitive no sharing BG harder than getting R1 now? Yes. Was getting R1 in 2v2/5v5/3v3 in a shit BG harder than it is now? No. Making old titles less prestigious in my opinion. Which was the whole argument.
 
 
 

 
 
I think compared to BC its harder to get glad or r1. But we have way less people playing. So i guess there is less competition but titles are more prestigious? I got glad on my warrior by playing 2v2 to 2.2 so i could buy the shoulders. I didnt go for glad. I just got it. 
 
I think people just stopped playing their classes to a maximum like they did in the past. I get the impression that most players now focus on being good on a lot of classes rather than beeing insane on one class. Really hard to judge. Some classes are easier now some are not. I think healers might have a harder time now.

 At the end the argument was are titles more or less prestigious today vs. past. And because of different BGs and the fact that you could get titles from 2s and 5s make old titles less prestigious. That being said hydras R1 titles are more prestigious than current R1 titles but you cant differentiate betweens hydras R1 and wintrading guy xy R1.

 

How can you claim that getting titles from 5s or 2s makes it less prestigious? How is it possible that the environment now is more competitive now, when in single battlegroup back then you could have more good players than you currently have over an entire continent?

 

You keep mentioning casuals; what do casuals do exactly? Good players don't even get to play them they are just an endless pool of players whose sole purpose it to provide rating to the ones above them. Once in a while someone rises from that pool and gets promoted, but outside of that, this pool comprised of average players does nothing for competition. Why is this relevant?

 

This hate against 2s is news to me - if anything 2s was better than 3s. 2s was much more a battle of wits and slower pace than the scripted combat of 3s. 

 

With regards to playing your class to the maximum; how much effort does it take to master a class with 20 skills vs one with 40? The difference is abysmal given all the skill interactions, its not a mere factor of 2.

 

I have been blessed with an excellent memory and I vividly remember individual games that I played almost a decade ago, and I cannot and will not in good conscience compare the level and prestige of players from bc/wotlk to whatever came after the first season of cataclysm. So in essence, you can believe what you want, but I will not be convinced that a ferocious, fierce, hotshot gladiator whatever now is better than a furious or a vengeful gladiator from 2s and therefore, that their titles are more  prestigious. You are coming from a weird angle where 50 high quality players fighting each other to death means there's more competition, and I am telling you it's not because this was happening before the merge of battlegroups and at an even larger scale.

 

 

During TBC and Wotlk, it was longer to create another character and gear it. (Less in Wotlk than TBC, because the Vanilla-style of levelling was still there in TBC, sloooooooow - i level up my main paladin in TBC as ret spec, trust me, it was painful.). Especially when PvE gear were dominant at the end.

 

And the mentality was waaaaay different than now. People played what they like (In terms of race/class combination for exemple, it was not surprising seeing a gnome warlock compared to now.), and not what it's the best. And even if Wotlk - despise all my criticism on it - was a bit more open because everything was broken. TBC was really closed in term of arena diversity.

 

Put the mentality of today in TBC meta, and you will see 90% of rdruid/war (mace)/rogue and sl/sl lock. Because those 4 specs were dominant during 3 seasons.

 

That could be a good simulation, to see if the meta in TBC could change if you can have a character as quickly as now. And with how people play now, maybe people would find new things.

 

40/0/21 shockadin was so much fun. The last time having a plate armor was a total threat to melees.

Now rogue have mostly shadow damage, please.

Shamans had lock spriest, hunters could drain mana and do priest/pala rogue hunter or druid hunter, mages had rmp and rogue mage, druids had everything, priests had rogue priest and rmp. The only class that was in a pretty bad spot was paladins, but even that could partially work with warrior mage pala or warrior enh pala and the warrior having sword spec and the shaman spamming purge. Also pala's where one of the best healers for 5s. Everything was viable (as a class not spec) in different brackets and comps.

 

Right now we are talking about a game, where the skill cap has been severely lowered and all traits of macro managements have been removed. No longer can you customize your character in x, y, z way. No longer are stats like spell penetration required. No longer do the piece of gear you choose matter. All in all, there's nothing you can do outside of the arena that matters in the arena, just raise your item level with complete disregard for what's important to you. You could gem/enchant resilience or crit or strength or whatever and adapt your playstyle accordingly. Experiment with different configurations. Where is that?

 

From a warrior perspective you could change weapons in game to increase your armor. You didn't just go def stance and wait you had buttons to press like shield block. You could intervene shit to stop cc or use it aggressively as a gap closer.  You could focus charge heals or cc to stop a cc chain - now you snare them for 10 seconds pssssssssss. Where is all that? Where is this "prestige" we are talking about?

 

So in essence, you can believe what you want, but I will not be convinced that a ferocious, fierce, hotshot gladiator whatever now is better than a furious or a vengeful gladiator from 2s and therefore, that their titles are more  prestigious. 


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Going to blizzcon looking for a fight is like going to the official wow arena forums for pvp advice :)

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#38 Jim_Jim

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Posted 09 December 2017 - 09:23 PM

Shamans had lock spriest, hunters could drain mana and do priest/pala rogue hunter or druid hunter, mages had rmp and rogue mage, druids had everything, priests had rogue priest and rmp. The only class that was in a pretty bad spot was paladins, but even that could partially work with warrior mage pala or warrior enh pala and the warrior having sword spec and the shaman spamming purge. Also pala's where one of the best healers for 5s. Everything was viable (as a class not spec) in different brackets and comps.

 

 

The only comp you said without the 4 "needed" spec is lock/shaman/priest. And it became good when they changed haste in the middle/end of the xpac to make the stat affecting dots.

Every other comp was dependent on the holy quatuor to be viable. You cannot played any other comp without at least one of them. 

 

So in essence, you can believe what you want, but I will not be convinced that a ferocious, fierce, hotshot gladiator whatever now is better than a furious or a vengeful gladiator from 2s and therefore, that their titles are more  prestigious.

 

 

Prestige is just a matter of point of view. You don't think the new "r1" are better, and i don't think title matter at all. I got few of them during MoP and WoD, i got glad in the best pvp expansion ever created by playing a totally hard comp without pve gear (It's sarcasm btw.), i never put them longer, it's just... useless. Unless you're 19y old undead rogue and care about your e-reputation, it's meh.

 

The mounts however...

 

During Wotlk, people migrate on lower bg to get it easier (Talk about prestige), people shared it in 5v5 with 11 other team (I was in one of them.), and in 2v2 during tbc, well, it was rdruid/x.

 

Just a point of view.

 

But i agree on one point, i miss customization. As someone who played old school RPG, damn, i loved it.

I have transmog to fill the void, but yeah...

 

TBC to WoD : "Who cares about the spirit stat?!" Hmmm :3


Edited by Jim_Jim, 09 December 2017 - 09:26 PM.

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