Jump to content

Photo

Stuff

arena PvP LFG talents

  • Please log in to reply
44 replies to this topic

#41 Hollowinside

Hollowinside
  • LocationZanarkand

Posted 18 July 2017 - 04:46 PM

while i've always admired your enthusiasm, it feels like a waste of time for me to discuss this with you if your response is always going to be "i didn't play then, but i've heard it wasn't like that"

 

i'm not arguing that pve gear was not helpful, but teams were getting glad in tbc and wotlk and cata with zero pve gear, therefore pve gear was not "required" or "necessary" to succeed

Hey! I did play in the whole of Cata though! :P Anyways, I see what you mean now. I didn't mean it that literally when I said that PvE was "necessary" in PvP. I meant to say it could offer a very much desirable performance increase (number increase in everything you did, basically) which could sometimes be a heavy deciding factor on who won and who lost an arena match. This - at least as my personal opinion goes - should not be happening. I am ok with needing to farm in an MMO and all that, but I really dislike how big of a number advantage such stuff used to bring to the table.


  • 0
Because the random name generator might pump out Lortfanden, which sounds like a pretty generic fantasy Warrior name in English, until you realize it means "Shit Fuck" in Danish.

#42 Dizzeeyo

Dizzeeyo
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 3,722
  • Talents: Frost 0/2/0/2/2/2
  • RBG: 2274

Posted 18 July 2017 - 04:56 PM

Hey! I did play in the whole of Cata though! :P Anyways, I see what you mean now. I didn't mean it that literally when I said that PvE was "necessary" in PvP. I meant to say it could offer a very much desirable performance increase (number increase in everything you did, basically) which could sometimes be a heavy deciding factor on who won and who lost an arena match. This - at least as my personal opinion goes - should not be happening. I am ok with needing to farm in an MMO and all that, but I really dislike how big of a number advantage such stuff used to bring to the table.

legendary weapons / DS proc weapons / pve trinkets with broken procs should never have existed in pvp, no-one will argue against that :)


  • 1

No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#43 Konjunktur

Konjunktur

Posted 18 July 2017 - 06:04 PM



First of all, the mentality was waaaaaaay different back then. People were not as... fotm as now, first because it wasn't that "instant" to level up and geared a character, and most of the time, the classes which didn't need Pve gear was the already broken spec (Rogue in S11 is the best example.).

Put actual people in Cata, everyone of us will try to have PvE gear, everyone. And everyone will play the best class, as opposed to before where people sticked to their main most of the time.

Everyone has always tried their absolute best to get the best gear they could possible get (in WotLK) too, regardless if their spec was broken or not without it, so that's not an argument. It's not like there was some sort of mentality shift going from wotlk > cata where suddenly everyone wanted the best gear available (and even if there was if we let wotlk replay today we'd have the same mentality now). I might have missunderstood you though, so feel free to elaborate.

 

PS: Rogues weren't 'very' OP without legendaries, Ferals were equally if not more OP than Rogues without legendaries. AT Cata realms pretty much proved this.

 

Also what's so wrong with wanting to play alts? Like, I really don't get this argument.

 

Why do you not want other players to be able to play more than one character competitively? Is it because you want to create some form of artificial balance where it doesn't matter if something's really OP because it might not be common to face due to a low number of people maining that spec? Or is it because you simply want new players to have to 'suffer' for ages before they catch up, ie you want to"pwn newbs"? Or is it because "It's an RPG!!!"? Why do you want to create an incredibly large "barrier of entry" that has nothing to even do with PvP?

 

I really don't see why you'd not let people play more than one character (without sacrificing their entire rl to maintain several "mains").

 

 

I think being able to PvE to maximise a character is a good thing actually. As long as it comes with some disavantages with it. Like trading a bit a resilience (Wotlk), to have more stats, so you can make a mix of both of the stuff (Saying "Ok, i'll heal more, but i will be more vulnerable"). Of course there will be some OP things, like someone said before, some mages were full PvE gear, but mostly because the spec was already squishy (The last time they had some real counters) so why the fuck wearing resilience?

If the difference between PvE and PvP gear performance is very minor then it's obviously no problem, but with how this game works a very minor change in stat distribution can make or break an entire spec in PvP so that's never going to be the case. This is actually part of the reason why they implemented Stat Templates to begin with, it was hard to balance around so many different possible gear configs causing specs to have completely different performances - not that I agree it was a good solution.

 

Disregarding PvP templates and insane PvE legendaries/trinkets etc then the problem with PvE gear is, if everyone figures out that "aah, mage with full pve gear is the best by far" then it will be mandatory to farm full PvE gear as a Mage unless you want to be subpar (in which case people won't want to play with you). Or say Feral in WoD, if PvE gear would've been viable every Feral would have been forced to PvE to get versatility in every off-set slot (and some even did before PvE gear was nerfed to complete unviability in PvP).

 

In addition to that, if PvE gear is just as viable in PvP as PvP gear then you have the issue of PvP gear being gated behind rating in combination with PvE being far easier than PvP to succeed in. This results in people feeling forced to PvE just to have similar ilvl as people higher rated than themselves, like not even a "minor" thing like better itemization but pure item levels. This is a major problem with Legion, why do arenas/bgs to get PvP gear when you can just use PvE gear which is far easier to get.


Edited by Konjunktur, 18 July 2017 - 06:08 PM.

  • 0

#44 Dizzeeyo

Dizzeeyo
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Sylvanas
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 3,722
  • Talents: Frost 0/2/0/2/2/2
  • RBG: 2274

Posted 18 July 2017 - 11:13 PM

PS: Rogues weren't 'very' OP without legendaries

always amuses me when people say this - the legendary daggers were a small flat % damage increase for rogue abilities, vs the pve 2 set that reduced your ability costs for several seconds after breaking stealth and practically doubled your burst, but everyone always complains about the daggers and never the set bonus  ;) ;)

 

the problem with PvE gear is, if everyone figures out that "aah, mage with full pve gear is the best by far" then it will be mandatory to farm full PvE gear as a Mage unless you want to be subpar (in which case people won't want to play with you)

thats an problem both with the attitude of the current wow player base and how current class design leaves almost zero room for playstyle differentiation, not a pve gear makes you do more damage problem


Edited by Dizzeeyo, 18 July 2017 - 11:18 PM.

  • 0

No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#45 Konjunktur

Konjunktur

Posted 19 July 2017 - 01:27 AM



always amuses me when people say this - the legendary daggers were a small flat % damage increase for rogue abilities, vs the pve 2 set that reduced your ability costs for several seconds after breaking stealth and practically doubled your burst, but everyone always complains about the daggers and never the set bonus  ;) ;)

I guess I should've specified "pve set bonus, vial & legendaries", 'cus that's what I ment and you know it. You're just strawmanning. Also I see you couldn't stay away from more passive aggressive smiley bullshit.

 

thats an problem both with the attitude of the current wow player base and how current class design leaves almost zero room for playstyle differentiation, not a pve gear makes you do more damage problem

 

You're arguing that with different, better, class design PvE gear wouldn't be a problem? gl creating a utopia where all playstyles of all specs are equally successful (or where a playstyle that requires PvE gear isn't just straight up the best for any spec).

 

In practice there will always be a best way to play (and thus gear) any given spec x in any comp y versus any comp z, regardless of class design.

 

And even if it's disputed which way that is among the playerbase, why should anyone be pigeonholed into the, potentially worse, playstyle? All just because they can't raid mythic 3 times a week (+ arenas) to get the PvE gear that the other playstyle requires to perform well? As I said before:

 

a very minor change in stat distribution can make or break an entire spec in PvP

Just exchange "spec" with "playstyle".

 

The issues of PvE gear and class design are not related.


Edited by Konjunktur, 19 July 2017 - 01:28 AM.

  • 1

#46 Djord

Djord
  • Members
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Bloodfeather
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 48
  • Talents: Arms 1/2/2/2/1/0/1
  • 2v2: 1618
  • 3v3: 1830
  • RBG: 1587

Posted 19 July 2017 - 05:56 PM

Of course people succeeded without PvE gear, but in my opinion, that doesn't made this as a counter argument. First of all, the mentality was waaaaaaay different back then. People were not as... fotm as now, first because it wasn't that "instant" to level up and geared a character, and most of the time, the classes which didn't need Pve gear was the already broken spec (Rogue in S11 is the best example.).

Put actual people in Cata, everyone of us will try to have PvE gear, everyone. And everyone will play the best class, as opposed to before where people sticked to their main most of the time.

 

I think being able to PvE to maximise a character is a good thing actually. As long as it comes with some disavantages with it. Like trading a bit a resilience (Wotlk), to have more stats, so you can make a mix of both of the stuff (Saying "Ok, i'll heal more, but i will be more vulnerable"). Of course there will be some OP things, like someone said before, some mages were full PvE gear, but mostly because the spec was already squishy (The last time they had some real counters) so why the fuck wearing resilience?

 

As long as this is not "There is no counterpart of wearing PvE stuff" like the end of S8 (With Shadowmourne and most trinkets), or S11 (With Gurthalak and other wonderful things. - Never said it was unfun, just... unfair. -).

 

Isn't warrior the "Only viable with Gurthalak" class in season 11?

 

 

Pretty much what this guy said, the game was  a lot more like an mmo back then with server restrictions and a lot less convinient features. You were to an extent stuck with your character and that specific class (my first max lvl alt was late wotlk)  you had choosen from the very begining.

 

I sort of enjoyed that some PvE items could be viable in PvP it made the game feel a lot bigger and immense than just sitting in ur garrision/order hall queing hoping for RNGjesus i liked that you could target specfic items and work towards them outside of PvP i remember i puged ICC 25 every week for 10 straight week to that sweet DBW <3

 

However i do agree that Shadowmourne was a bit to much perhaps although i rarely had troubling dealing with those Dispelcleaves with mourn Warriors (played Kittycleave) but for some it was aids i guess? Felt like the trade off in surviveablity was intresting i had some non pvp items 3 or 4 i think i remember i rolled with 970-980 ressi somewhere in s8. 

 

 

I guess it's a preference thing i really and can't really say i blame them for going for this globalist/modernisation direction suppose it only natual with this instant this instant that everything in general in any part of life really. Personally i cant enjoy the game anymore i really dont like how solo gameplay mentality has taken over the game, good to hear some still enjoying it though.  

 

I really miss those old times AJ peaking the MS paint thread going mad, good times indeed, all distant memories from a different time. You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain. WoW should have died with the Lich King (not really but you get the idea ;D) it's a shadow of it former self. Let us bury you it's time!


  • 0
To succeed you have to stop being ordinary and be legen -wait for it- dary





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: arena, PvP, LFG, talents

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<