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arena PvP LFG talents

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#1 ProdeGaming

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 02:02 PM

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Essentially it's what group finder does, except instead of doing so yourself, it looks for teammates for you
 
•convenient
•more ppl use a more convenient way, more ppl in LFG
•it looks through players in LFG a lot faster
•more ppl LFG'ing and it's checking through way quicker -> much faster group finding
•players looking for teams find teams more often as they're not only searching more efficiently, but probably for a longer max time as it's easy to LFG
•with more players in LFG and finding teams more often too, arena participation should significantly increase
 
Somewhat similar to solo Q, but it's not quite what it does, it essentially does what players do in group finder, except automatically
 
 
3nU4qJ8.png
 
Another way could be to search for roles instead of specs
 
•possibly much easier to make, LFG can already distinguish classes and roles
•unpopular specs can find a team too, often can't not search for those
 
 
 
 
 
Dmg, healing
 
SqwISNp.png
 
 
 
 
 
PvP talent system
 
For those that haven't seen
Spoiler
 
With PvP talents arranged similarly the choice is possibly up to customization, playstyle. 
 
 
EJzU3lX.pngEJzU3lX.pngEJzU3lX.pngEJzU3lX.pngEJzU3lX.pngEJzU3lX.pngexample Fire Mage
EJzU3lX.png9qI2BkS.png
 
EJzU3lX.pngEJzU3lX.pngEJzU3lX.pngEJzU3lX.pngEJzU3lX.pngEJzU3lX.pngexample Holy Paladin

EJzU3lX.pngnPKS1T6.png

 

To be able to do that, some CC talents could get moved to PvP instead and replace them with something fun dmg mechanics etc for PvE. For example Ring of Frost etc probably isn't that exciting for PvE players. Or could get more rows in normal talents with replacing on use dmg mechanics with passive stuff for newer players. (for example Demon Blades)
Spoiler
 
 
 
 
 
Arena structure
 
1DWXrja.png
 
Can possibly get arena gameplay more enjoyable for players through structuring arena in a way that allows much more reasonable set of abilities
 
•running with same speed is fair enough to catch someone, low mobility, even just walking is viable
•'eyes' can be used to their full effect, practically assured to get players out of stealth
•can make better use of casted spells, more reliable and can surely get the target in LoS for a while occasionally
•generally more reasonable mobility, don't need close to absurd mobility to catch ppl -> don't need to run so much either
•starting areas have 'fortress' feel to them 
•caster with only casted spells is probably viable
•possibly more reasonable general gameplay and required abilities
 
 
 
 
 
Enchants, gems, itemization
 
NFLxlS3.png
 
 
 

Edited by ProdeGaming, 12 July 2017 - 02:53 PM.

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#2 Bigmoran

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 05:30 PM

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#3 Zellah

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 06:55 PM

A few comments:

 

In Matchmaking you should automatically be placed with people in your MMR / CR no option to pick MMR. 

 

In the healing vs dmg comparsion you need to take into account that dps are not always hitting healer in a hit the dumy playstyle and cc chains and interrupts are a thing. Its satisfying to score kills through cc and clutch interrupts and not through pure outdmg. 

 

IDK how i feel about the closed pillars, maybe if they could go up after some time or something (will probably feel like gimicks). They need to test it anyways. 

 

Finally i like stat templates since it does in fact allow for better game balance to a degree and putting points will be pretty cookie cutter for each spec (looks interactive / looks like you made a decission but its pretty straight foward). So i will give it a no. What i feel that should be done about stat templates is that there is no clarity at all. There should be something telling me how i am scaling, how much haste / intellect / etc i am earning with each ilvl point. 

 

Anyways nice post. 


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#4 Angrypiexx

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Posted 09 July 2017 - 11:57 PM

i will read it in depth later. for the moment, thanks for trying ... despite the fact here you gonna get comments like "they don't care", "lol get a life", "dude wtf lol"


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#5 Thazable

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 02:15 AM

Currently I'd lable your post as "interesting", but the arena structure part seems "unfair", while I agree that it would call for more reasonable gameplay, in certain situations, it would unfavor a lot of classes that do not have access to great amounts of movement or mobility, doesn't matter if it's to stop a drink or whatever.


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#6 Br0ll3

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 05:29 AM

Great work, awesome initiative.

I like the idea behind the honor talents, but as always I miss alot of the spells I used to have.
Also I would love some more trashbuffs in the game so that Holy Paladins can be a little bit more viable. "Freedom and BoP instantly gets purged/stolen first global" makes me not wanna use the spells..

LFG tool, there's been a post about this before and the idea has gotten alot of support from the "community".
Also there has been alot of talk about SoloQueues, but there's alot of work for that to become reality. The devs have said that they've talked about it and it might happen in a future expansion

The stat template: today gear and ilvl feels completly useless and boring. I like the Idea of being able to choose your stats. Missing reforge alot.

Very refreshing seeing someone who actually tries to make this game better, and not only typing "game is trash"

We're getting a new PvP-design leader. Instead of crying about the game, lets try to help the devs make the game better with constructive critism.

I really like your post, hope you can find the energy to keep it up. I will try my best to help everyone who wants to make the game better.


 


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#7 ProdeGaming

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 12:05 PM

Generally very nice replies tyvm 

 

 

 

 

A few comments:

 

In Matchmaking you should automatically be placed with people in your MMR / CR no option to pick MMR. 

 

Y, it should search around your mmr. Probably significant that the picked MMR is minimum MMR, it can't be more than yours. It's there as usually matchmakings extend the search in case the queue takes longer. But maybe some higher rated players don't want 1500 teammates even if queue takes 2 hours then they just don't want to play and that's it

 

Say a 2000 team might put 1800 as minimum. The LFG should try get a very close to 2000 MMR teammate anyway, but it extends to 1800 cap in case it doesn't find closer to 2000. Possibly considerable advantage too that it allows to LF classes/specs that barely anyone plays yet still not let the LFG give you a 1000 MMR below you teammate.

 

Good point, didn't quite put that there. Surely it should LF similar MMR players


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#8 Konjunktur

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 05:31 PM

Lots of issues with these ideas. I guess I'll just start from the top:

 

1) Basically this is solo queue lite, but requires pretty much the same amount of work on Blizzard's end. The "hard" part about solo queue is the matchmaking algorithm ie who gets queued with who, how should time queued be weighed versus mmr vs selected comps when matching people (and a lot more issues that are too complex to just write about in a paragraph or so). And this system would need all that too. That means it's most likely not going to happen. But if it does happen they're probably going to add solo queue too (because then the hard part for solo queue is already implemented). And well yeah I'm all for solo queue so I guess it's a good idea.

 

2) This part is as usual completely incoherent - something about changing damage/healing in relation to one another yada yada. It's not going to happen. Get over it. Blizzard has had hundreds of opportunities to do this, but they won't because it would separate PvP from PvE too much in their eyes.

 

3) They're not going to move more CC out of baseline/talents and make them PvP only. The PvErs are also upset they lost a lot of their tools, it's not going to fly with them to remove even more stuff from them. Other than that, well the concept could work - but I'm sure Blizzard would find a way to fuck it up.

 

4) Yeah... no. All maps should just be different skins of Nagrand arena, the normal one. The one you suggested is just going to get crowded and annoying (just like Lordaeron and Black Rook Hold rooms). Eyes already works perfectly fine to get people out of stealth with unless you're bad, and this won't help casters in the slighest - it'll help the teams that want to train healers, ie meleecleaves. Your map will just dumb the game down further.

 

5) This is a good idea, I've suggested it myself before. I get the idea behind the stat template but at least let us customize like 50% of our stats or something Blizzard.


Edited by Konjunktur, 10 July 2017 - 05:32 PM.

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#9 Jim_Jim

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 07:04 PM

1) The problem with your solo queue system is, in my opinion, about the spec, and as said by Ridtur, it's gonna be a nightmare mixing the mmr, the cr, the spec YOU choose, and all of that together. Especially for the spec, because WoW has always been fotm, people will never need a blood dk if it's trash, or any spec that are less good/interesting to use.

We have already our "solo queue" system, but it's not interesting to use it because of the complete absence of rewards or incentive (Rating, competitive, title... everything.). I think of skirmishes of course.

Why not extend this to a rated system? Different titles/mount of course, different and/or similar rewards (gear, elite gear), different ladder. Exactly like a Moba, you can queue team 3v3 (Like the current one), with a fix comp, or you can queue alone, and be mixed as a 2x dps (tank included) / heal.

Of course, it's random, you can create a complete weird comp, or win the jackpot with a rogue/mage, but it's like that in any Moba. With an mmr always equal to your current one in teamed 3v3, so you are always mixed with people on your "skills.", without being handicaped or without destroying people who only want to progress.

 

Add that a total system of achievement based on the rating + class you play with for multiples rewards, a different title/mount at the end, remove the name during the game so you are anonymous (outside of transmog) and voilà. It could increase the streaming population too.

 

2) I... don't really understand the damage/healing part.

 

3) Not agree at all. It would make differences between classes even more huge. And i'm glad you picked the hpal example. Because you forgot the PvE part. First, talents need to be equally good to be in the same row, otherwise one will be always picked. (And it has always been like that, in any xpac). Second, PvE numbers. Right now hpal have the lowest healing power of all, thanks to PvE. Why would i pick some weird talent while crippling my already low healing?

PvP talent row should be focused on a spell. One row = One spell. Without each talent giving a advantage (Range, magical/physical debuff, crit chance, cd reduction... use your imagination) while reducing another one. So you can adapt with your playstyle and comp.

 

4) As said before, a "Nagrand like" would be better. With different size too (Like Tol'viron). And even if i like the new graphical revamp for Blade's edge, it's the worst map :x

 

5) Totally agree, we need more customization. And it could be an easy way to nerf the "OP" stat for some spec by just increasing the cost of each points.


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#10 Zellah

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 07:51 PM

Why are you in general in favor of that type of templates? 

 

It gives a false sense of customization. The people that understand the game and know their class they will run 99% of them the same stat weigths. Its only a noob trap. 


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#11 Konjunktur

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 02:18 AM

Why are you in general in favor of that type of templates? 

 

It gives a false sense of customization. The people that understand the game and know their class they will run 99% of them the same stat weigths. Its only a noob trap. 

For the most part you are correct - but not always, and figuring out just what happens to be the best when queueing a certain comp or versus a certain set of comps is amazing. Like: "Oh a lot of RMD's are queueing, and I'm Feral, well I guess I should get some extra versatility".

 

But there have also been cases where you're wrong. One example was Warlock back in MoP. You'd gem/reforge into haste if you were playing with a shaman but mastery if not (might have been the other way around) because Shamans gave mastery buff. So you could get more haste to make the casts faster without sacrificing too much damage.

 

And there have been more examples like that. But generally it required farming a second set or parts of it, which was annoying.


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#12 Maleficent

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 02:27 AM

Posting in a Droon thread. 


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#13 Melaniatrump

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 01:33 PM

Just take a second to imagine if droonx ran wow pvp. Just imagine what a circus that would be. The funniest part would be the patch notes.
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#14 ProdeGaming

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 02:52 PM

Why are you in general in favor of that type of templates? 

 

It gives a false sense of customization. The people that understand the game and know their class they will run 99% of them the same stat weigths. Its only a noob trap. 

 
I'm not, tho it's something that I think many players would like

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#15 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 13 July 2017 - 06:17 PM

It gives a false sense of customization. The people that understand the game and know their class they will run 99% of them the same stat weigths. Its only a noob trap. 

not actually true, but anyway


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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#16 Zellah

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 08:35 AM

not actually true, but anyway

 

How is it not true, when stats were available, most players min maxed the same way. And whats worse, min maxing before required farming pve gear to min max your pvp stats. 

 

Min-Maxing your character, something that is trivial to most experienced players and should not affect the more casual players that are already worse at the game. Its not even a gameplay mechanic and the slight influence it has in your actual gameplay can be ignored for the sake of better balance over time and lvling the gamefield in an area were there is no need for players to gain a slight advantage. 


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#17 Konjunktur

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 02:32 PM

How is it not true, when stats were available, most players min maxed the same way. And whats worse, min maxing before required farming pve gear to min max your pvp stats. 

 

Min-Maxing your character, something that is trivial to most experienced players and should not affect the more casual players that are already worse at the game. Its not even a gameplay mechanic and the slight influence it has in your actual gameplay can be ignored for the sake of better balance over time and lvling the gamefield in an area were there is no need for players to gain a slight advantage. 

Just because most people min-maxed the same way doesn't mean everyone did, and certainly not 99%. Some people were smarter with changing gear, especially at higher ratings (where people had enough CP to buy several sets of gear).

 

In MoP(S14+S15)/WoD min-maxing didn't require PvE.

 

Why should min maxing not affect the more casual players? Because you don't think it should? It's not like you can completely fail at customizing your character (and if you somehow manage to you would've failed in PvP regardless). If you're bad and can't do simple things like idk looking at the ladder for someone of your spec and checking out their gear then you should get punished imo. Enough with all this casualization everywhere, there should be limits.

 

Why is your opinion that balance > customization more valid than the people who think fun > balance, and whom consider customization a fun way to differentiate themselves from the rest?


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#18 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 04:15 PM

And whats worse, min maxing before required farming pve gear to min max your pvp stats

an mmo requiring farming, how disgusting :)

 

i would laugh at the rest of your points in more detail, but the post above has that covered already

 

Enough with all this casualization everywhere, there should be limits

amen, jk Blizzard 2017 and their cyclical subscribers


Edited by Dizzeeyo, 14 July 2017 - 04:17 PM.

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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#19 Konjunktur

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 06:28 PM

an mmo requiring farming, how disgusting :)

 

i would laugh at the rest of your points in more detail, but the post above has that covered already

 

amen, jk Blizzard 2017 and their cyclical subscribers

Yeah... I don't think PvP should require PvE to min-max. Don't drag me into that argument :P


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#20 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 14 July 2017 - 09:39 PM

Yeah... I don't think PvP should require PvE to min-max. Don't drag me into that argument :P

separate lines, separate arguments :)

 

although presumably those people who want to get an alt to max level and then forget that other aspects of this game exist outside of arena are having the time of their lives this expansion? ;)


Edited by Dizzeeyo, 14 July 2017 - 10:43 PM.

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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)






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