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How would you re-design your class/spec?

redesign expansion

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#1 Konjunktur

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Posted 07 July 2017 - 11:41 PM

Yeah, how would you re-design your class for the next expansion?

 

We should be as early as possible with telling Blizzard exactly what we want this time around. We need to start teling them what we think is fun gameplay and we need to start doing so now.

 

Keep the following in mind:

 

- Don't design around Legion, don't think "this wouldn't work, it'd be OP", as all classes will get rehauled it's entirely possible it wouldn't be. Just think about what you think would be the most fun iteration of your class/spec.

 

- Don't design around damage/healing - it can always be tuned to not be too high/low. Focus on what makes for fun gameplay (well at a certain point having too much utility/cc and no damage/healing as a result can be boring too I guess, but you get the idea).

 

You can use the following template if you wish:

 

Classname - Specname

 

Description/Reasoning: I thought this would be a good idea because relentless and adaptation sucks a lot of depth out of the game being the passives that they are.

 

Baseline:

 

Basically what changes you would make to the baseline abilities/passives.

 

PvE Talents:

 

 

What would you do with the PvE talents.

 

Honor Talents:

 

What would you do with the PvP talents.

 

Example:

 

Replace Relentless & Adaptation with previously pruned spec abilities X and Y.


Edited by Konjunktur, 07 July 2017 - 11:43 PM.

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#2 Zellah

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 01:10 AM

But Relentless and Adaptation are from legion so that is making changes around legion??????

 

 

My 2 cents are, remove stormbolt, a ranged 4 second phyisical stun has no place in a warrior kit, give ret paladins a better support kit and maybe lower dmg a little bit to compensate, i feel like class fantasy wise they should be played as dps that can bring a lot of utility and its not the case atm. 

 

I would personally like shadow, balance, ret, ele to have some of their healing back.

 

 

Unique dispel mechanics from all healers or make it more unique, for example, shaman purge costs less mana, druid magic dispel on a higher CD and removes curses (already does), pallies better poison removal, priest used to be the only ones with ofensive and defensive dispel and that made them unique, now everyone can dispel everything and it feels boring. 


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#3 Fedx

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 05:18 AM

I would get MoP s15 back with some tweaks. Removing symbiosys, putting clone and fear on same dr, fear breaking a lot quicker from dmg, remove poison stun from rogues, removing pom, making RoF cc go off instantly instead of delay, make monk portal instant and not a cast.

 

Would also nerf mage dmg by a bit. Might have forgot about some ability tweaks but those are the main ones imo. Game would be fun and good.

 

Something thats up for debate is blanket csing wether it should stay in the game or not. 


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#4 Gimotqt

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:21 AM

hunter mm

it depends if i wanna talk about complex changes - complete new design - but i kinda cant because my mind is not that great to design class but i have some idea for just few tweaks 

generally i would turn mm hunter into sth between wotlk-cata-mop

but as it is impossible, i will not include dmg and balance numbers in my suggestions just mechanical/gameplay tweaks

i would redesign playing around sidewinders which make me aids

put pvp talent rangers finesse into baseline

put  new enhanced arcane shot into last pvptalent which auto apply vulnerable(just like sidewinders)+ increase its dmg by X% andrestore more focus - or just put old (but stronger than before) steady shot which does the same and is castable while moving doing similar dmg to current sidewinders// 

explosive trap 40s->30s cd

TNT replace with season 1 frozen arrow in exchange with freezing trap or maybe sth like old wotlk entrapment 3s root for frost trap

piercing shot cost 100 focus 2.5s  casting time ignoring all armor + increasing dmg for 6s by X%  maybe makes 3 aimed shot costs 0 focus (no changes for casting time)

bring back old barrage + make it hit more against vulnerable for situations where u like higher bursts instead of great dot dmg(Crows)

lockandload - > make it proc from something other than auto attacks, like old surv freezing trap so u can at leeast force rng or mpact on it instead of playing pure rng 

i would put all pvp stings into baseline spells with shared cd - i want to decide when to use those spells not pick up a 1 talent for entire match

it would open 3 pvp talent slots for sth interesting because one of the problems of mm is that this spec is "empty" it was only strong because of dmg and 3 instant same dr cc 

mm is a lot better than in wod, but its still not well designed compared to wotlk-mop


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#5 Jim_Jim

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 09:32 AM

make monk portal instant and not a cast.

 

 

Funny fact, during MoP, if you were kicked on the very fast cast of the portal, you couldn't use your trinket. For some reason, portal and trinket share the same... physical school.


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#6 Dizzeeyo

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 12:14 PM

"class fantasy" honor talents, remove (most) ex honor talent passives from the game, return (most) ex honor talent activatables to classes base toolkits

"class fantasy" ilvl templates, reintroduce honor/conquest pvp gear

"class fantasy" lore from all things blizzard related

 

should be a good start


Edited by Dizzeeyo, 08 July 2017 - 12:18 PM.

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No because the difference is when I play a comp i play it close to skill cap

if anyone needs to be banned, it's you. You do nothing but sit on AJ being a passive aggressive idiot that nobody likes, sorry you stink of washing up liquid.

Feel free to call me an idiot because I'm a hunter or some stupid ass remark but I've actually written all this down on paper

I actually made an appearance at DH2014 and I met up with people from twitch who were involved with the dota 2 / cs tournies that where there, I talked about the game from my perspective as a professional player and we actually shared a lot of opinions. All I'm saying is a lot of people will be VERY surprised about the future of this game in the esport world :)


#7 Isumi

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 02:00 PM

Funny fact, during MoP, if you were kicked on the very fast cast of the portal, you couldn't use your trinket. For some reason, portal and trinket share the same... physical school.

fun times playing against russian kfc who kicked the port instantly and then oneshotted the monk because he couldnt use anything because he was "locked"


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#8 Jim_Jim

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 03:21 PM

About "re-design" the class, i would love hpal to be the best defensive/support heal with little offensive tools (Wotlk), while having a "fast gameplay" like MoP.

Something like :

 

- Plate armor meaning something again - last time was TBC where rogues and warrior struggled to hit a fully plated paladin with a shield.

- Removing the PvE tax from beacon of light, crippling us since Cataclysm. (40 (now) /50 (before Legion)% of heals redirected to the beacon made us the lowest healing power in PvP)

- Short CD with short duration. Instead of having a 5min BoP which last 12s and remove physical thing, why not having a 45s one, which last 3s, and just immune you to incoming physical abilities/damage, without removing the current one (Like DK's AMS). Same with sacrifice. Freedom is already short CD.

- Make an auras system like Lucio in Overwatch/Hots, 3-4 auras you can switch with a GCD (Devotion for damage reduction, Holy for healing increase, Crusader for speed, Retribution for damage reflection.), and aura mastery becoming a short CD : "I overboost this aura"?

Example : Crusader increase your speed by 10%, Aura mastery, while active, boost the bonus to 30% during 6s.

- Bring back denounce, but with minimal damage for PvP, here just to have something to check (Stealing crit.), or to do while no healing is requiered.

- Give us blessings of anything. (Mastery, haste, crit...) to buff our allies while giving us trash buffs to check.

 

Basically, all the offensive tools is how to help your allies do more damage/moving with your healing power / buffs / auras.


Edited by Jim_Jim, 08 July 2017 - 03:21 PM.

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#9 zzu

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Posted 08 July 2017 - 04:10 PM

charge stun.


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#10 Br0ll3

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:02 AM

About "re-design" the class, i would love hpal to be the best defensive/support heal with little offensive tools (Wotlk), while having a "fast gameplay" like MoP.

Something like :

 

- Plate armor meaning something again - last time was TBC where rogues and warrior struggled to hit a fully plated paladin with a shield.

- Removing the PvE tax from beacon of light, crippling us since Cataclysm. (40 (now) /50 (before Legion)% of heals redirected to the beacon made us the lowest healing power in PvP)

- Short CD with short duration. Instead of having a 5min BoP which last 12s and remove physical thing, why not having a 45s one, which last 3s, and just immune you to incoming physical abilities/damage, without removing the current one (Like DK's AMS). Same with sacrifice. Freedom is already short CD.

- Make an auras system like Lucio in Overwatch/Hots, 3-4 auras you can switch with a GCD (Devotion for damage reduction, Holy for healing increase, Crusader for speed, Retribution for damage reflection.), and aura mastery becoming a short CD : "I overboost this aura"?

Example : Crusader increase your speed by 10%, Aura mastery, while active, boost the bonus to 30% during 6s.

- Bring back denounce, but with minimal damage for PvP, here just to have something to check (Stealing crit.), or to do while no healing is requiered.

- Give us blessings of anything. (Mastery, haste, crit...) to buff our allies while giving us trash buffs to check.

 

Basically, all the offensive tools is how to help your allies do more damage/moving with your healing power / buffs / auras.

omg give me denounce pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeease


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#11 sarma

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:52 AM

Necrotic strike baseline for all specs

Dark simulacrum baseline for all specs

Strangulate/aspyxiate baseline for all specs

Desecration back (5 sec duration is more then enough so not whole map is covered in this)

 

Every class

 

Def cds duration and effectiveness increased in pvp (1-3 max number od def cds per spec)

Off cds duration and effectiveness decreased in pvp (1-2 offensive cds max per spec) 

 

CC Spells not affected by haste figure out a cast time for each and stick to it

 

Filler spells removed

Filler spells are not fun

Pressing every button should make you happy

Casted spells should make you happy if you get them off

 

Frostbolt with 2.5+ sec cast time that hits for 10% of instant icelance dmg doesnt make you happy it makes you frustrated instead

 

holy light that heals for 5% of someone's hp and has 3 sec cast time doesnt make you happy, you get major psyhotic fucking hatreds towards game devs instead

healing for 0 outside cooldowns but having 300 cds to compensate for terrible class design means you should fire your class developer not bandaid fix the class for pvp by pvp designer

 

 

How i think about it aoe spells should never be tied into single target rotaton and never used in pvp unless they are used on 4-5+ targets (rbg) or to prevent flag capture but if those have to exist in current form because of pve then Cleave spells needs to be nerfed in pvp im not talking about 25% nerfs im talking about butchering them totally example :

 

Whirlwind doing 100% on primary target and 10% of that to offtargets in pvp

 

Whats the point of having  spells that cleave the whole team down (double icelance, double chaosbolts etc)

 

Dont confuse cleave with rotting Its so much different to have rogue for example that leaves rupture and poisson on whole team by swapping targets and pressing single target spells to leave dots up or warlock multidotting or feral multibleeding its totally different movie then using 1 gcd and cleave everything as collateral dammage

 

Mana pool being a resource again for casters

 

 

Stupid design such as having 4 blinks on mage removed - who thought this was a good idea?

Excape abilities vs gap closers balanced  - favored a bit towards excape abilies ofcourse

 

Melee class should have very low uptime on the mage

Mage facetanking warrior  not giving a fuck like it was in WOD should not ever be a thing again 

 

Every spell shoud have budget (giving stupid example now)

If something is hitting for 90% of someone hp (soulshatter) that spell should have 5 sec cast time and prerequisites such as dispelable debuff low range or other downsides

 

If something is instant cast heal/dmg it should do max 30% of casted spell dmg unless it has a long CD/too heavy manacost or soemthing else figure the maths yourself

 

Example of how good spell should be designed like 

 

Has counter play

Rewards better player

Requires brain and awareness to use

 

Example of bad spells/talents

 

Pure of heart (nobrainer)

Everywhere at once (no words to describe how much this ability shits on the game)

Clawing shadows (range)

Divine intervention (nobrainer)

 

Customisation being a thing again 70 talents,glyphs and reforging etc is much better then this dumbed down shit we have now. Even illusion of choice is better then no choice at all

 

Stop removing spells from the game, expecially ones that were here for 10 years lol

 

 

P.S Remove dampening 


Edited by sarma, 10 July 2017 - 09:22 AM.

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#12 Gimotqt

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 12:29 PM

Pressing every button should make you happy

Casted spells should make you happy if you get them off

 

this

currently the only fun spells are

maybe feign death with survival tactics talent and viper sting vs hot classes are fun and okish rest is same boring stuff

back in the day i felt like every little spell was meaningful, even aspect dancing made me cool and better than other guys

today pressing fucking aimed shots which hits for 3% of target hp is so ...

balance should not only be considered as how strong and weak classes are in comparison to each other, but how fun and engaging playing ur class is

i think it would be better if they close arena and open new pvp with the pets/toys/heroes like Murky so we have 200 different guys to play a bg/arena in champion select system; and u could play it @lvl 1 unlocking some extra skins stuff lile in league

it would be 10x better than playing this mortal kombat pseudo mmorpg pvp game


Edited by Gimotqt, 10 July 2017 - 12:30 PM.

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#13 Konjunktur

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 01:14 PM

Example of bad spells/talents

 

Pure of heart (nobrainer)

Everywhere at once (no words to describe how much this ability shits on the game)

Clawing shadows (range)

Divine intervention (nobrainer)

Oooh, this is fun, I'll add some more:

 

Adaptation (obvious)

Relentless (obvious)

Enraged Maim (6sec CD, bugged so u can't death it, physical so can't dispel, also wrong dr school for Feral - Blizzard really dislikes CC chains)

Bloodtalons (forces you to use Predatory Swiftness in dps rotation instead of using it on roots and heals as needed, really dumb)

Burning Determination + Calming Waters (yeah man, lets reward you for fucking up)

Ranged (Melee) Kicks, Multiple Kicks (obvious)

Greater Pyroblast (0 APM, just click it wait 6 seconds and repeat - bad gameplay)

Fury of Air (Passive AoE damage well designed breh, must not like CC very much)

 

And of course as you mentioned the way everything fucking cleaves - Ebonbolt, Chaos Bolt, Chimera Shot,  etc. Single target spells are not supposed to cleave, it just devalues CC and "skillplays" even more.

 

Also imo this incredibly stupid "We want CC at TBC levels" mentality of Blizzard needs to go. Go look at some TBC videos, it was fun at the time, but going back there now is just stupid. It's not fun to just hit each other and see whoever dies first with barely no possibility of outplaying because the most impactful "skillplay" abilities, ie CC's are well almost non-existant. A few examples: Typhoon, Scare Beast, Hibernate, Cyclone (Feral), Howl/Coil, Shadowflame etc. And in the few cases where the CC was replaced and not just straight up removed the replacements are 10x more stupid and retard friendly than the originals.  


Edited by Konjunktur, 10 July 2017 - 01:14 PM.

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#14 varellz

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 04:14 PM

affliction:

roll back to wrath/cata

done.


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#15 Odrareg

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Posted 10 July 2017 - 08:05 PM

holy paladin:

 

- decrease my healing during wings and increase my baseline healing. fake the enemy, spam yourself, watch your hp remain the same or still go down. BEAUTIFUL

- bring back divine plea with the healing debuff

- give back buffs like kings, might, wisdom

- find a solution for BoP not being completely useless vs classes who can purge. far too overpowered vs some, and extremely useless vs others.

- bring back seals and different judgements. judgement of justice would stop people from kiting, wisdom would give mana, light would heal...so many options!

- old aura mastery making you uninterruptable for 6 seconds maybe? see below

- divine favor is fucking useless vs classes who can purge it, and atm its one of the few things you can do to actually heal. i find myself letting my partner fall below 50% on purpose (so my artifact trait procs and next heal is bigger) and then i use divine favor...like, really?  fix this somehow


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#16 Call Me Teranaye

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Posted 11 July 2017 - 03:10 AM

revert back to mop/cata/wotlk and start working from there...or be creative and add new spells that increase the skill gap between players?unpruneee


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