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3v3 arena pvp 2v2

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#21 Br0ll3

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 02:49 PM

Instead of picking classes you wanna face in arena should be the other way - picking classes (max 1-2) you don't wanna face.

It's not facing arena enemies, it's finding teammates.
Obviously you shouldn't be able to control what you wanna face/dont wanna face in arena.


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#22 Nekrozx

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 03:31 PM

A for effort, too bad games dying and it'd take ages to find mates.


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#23 moneky

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Posted 24 November 2016 - 05:24 PM

Y, it is a good point, but as you mentioned you have to use, in fact have to keep using the premade group finder until you get a group. And in case it takes long, then have to keep using it for long, and it's not quite good having to check who queued/whether he has the req etc, not even for just a bit let alone for 10 minutes or more
 
But with a similar 'solo' Q it just takes ~seconds to set it up yet it's all there is to do, then just sit back. Not only that, but because it's more convenient to use, probably more players LFG/LFG more often which is significant benefit for ~anyone who wants to 3v3


Well, unless the people applying aren't completely incompetent they should see your name / maker of lfg group and whisper you directly aswell or save it for another time
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#24 Thaya

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 11:20 AM

But with a similar 'solo' Q it just takes ~seconds to set it up yet it's all there is to do, then just sit back. Not only that, but because it's more convenient to use, probably more players LFG/LFG more often which is significant benefit for ~anyone who wants to 3v3

you're grossly underestimating how difficult it is to do matchmaking, both in design and (technical) implementation

like

what if there's no players in the queue that match your criteria? do you just put the player into infinite queue, or attempt to somehow communicate that there's no match? if so, how exactly? for example, imagine someone who doesn't know the 3v3 meta queues with a shit spec that nobody wants to play with, how are you gonna let the player know that he won't get a game doing that?

what if there's 1 priest, 1 mage, and 2 rogues, all queueing for RMP at the same time with the same rating. are you gonna rotate the rogues (this in particular is aids to implement technically btw)? if so, how are you gonna let the rogue that doesn't get a game know that there's a priest and a mage queueing, but are currently in a game, so he will game a game if he waits?

and that's just scratching the surface

the manual listing/LFG concept isn't that bad, you get to see exactly whats going on and that cancels out all these issues

the listing UI itself can be improved though. it could show the applying persons ratings, for example, or let you list which specs you're looking for in your group

you could easily eliminate the need to manually check ratings (for group leaders) or manually read the description of every group (to see what setup they're going for, when applying to groups - you could just filter them out) with just small UI edits. it's definitely doable with an addon
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#25 Justicethis

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 09:23 PM

this won't work due to the 1700rogue only wanting to play with glads because his inner skill is at the 3,6k mark but no one he plays with has the same understanding of the game he does. 


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#26 moneky

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Posted 26 November 2016 - 11:43 PM

this won't work due to the 1700rogue only wanting to play with glads because his inner skill is at the 3,6k mark but no one he plays with has the same understanding of the game he does. 

Put them up against infinite melee cleaves and let them train him and he will keep dying until he asks himself. Am I at fault?


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#27 Jim_Jim

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 10:26 AM

I think this kind of system could be good in the beginning, but will probably be extremely selective with time. Just like how the PvE one works. Not because of the system itself, but how people react and play with each others. People will ask achievements (“Ahead to the curve or no inv”), people will ask specific class/spec, and as said before, the poor guy who play the weak spec of the week will never have a queue at all, no-one will ask him to play with.
And the PvE one is way more… neutral, in the way that the bosses are always the same, and you can be easily invited just because you have a better gear. A PvP one would be way more elitist, because you can’t predict how the fight will go, your gear will not be an indicator of “Ok, this guy will be good in the group.”. Right now, a group ask for Helya achievement for Trial of Valor, in 4 weeks, after Nighthold, people will just see your 910 gear, and invite you without questions.

The idea of finding other people to play with is good, but I’m not sure about the benefits of the system you show.
What’s your opinion about the same system as we have now, with a different ladder, with a different rating, with loots… but instead of queuing as 3, you can only queue solo, and only solo. So you are mixed up with people for your own mmr, with random spec and classes, and you play against people with random spec and classes. Add to this a system who punish people leaving because “Oh no, it’s a holy priest” without hurting the holy priest, and everyone can queue something with his own spec. This is my experience in Moba’s for example, I usually queue solo 99% of the time because It’s like playing WoW Vanilla, you play a solo game, but with people around you, and then you have to adapt to your mates’s heroes/role. And sometimes, you find someone friendly or good enough to play together. And more important : in solo queue, I can play anything I want, compared to the rated one where I have to pick the right character if there is no tank, and avoid some because “the meta is not good for him”.

Right now if you queue at specific and regular hours (In my case for exemple, it’s usually after work and dinner, so between 20:00 – 23:30), you will face few teams, usually 50% of them are FotW – now in my opinion, it’s ret/huntSV/rdruid -, but they will be the same players, until they naturally stop for X reasons.). Add to this some websites like xunamate where you can spy people, and you end up saying “Ok, I’m gonna play Overwatch, there are 4 differents liberty queuing.”

The big problem right now with arenas queues is that people have no reason to queue after a particular rating, you face only the same people playing the best comp of the week, and people doesn’t really want to continue playing with the same people after one defeat (Like in PvE, try to do a Trial of Valor HM now, it’s funny to see how much people are patient with wipes and the others), especially with how balanced WoW is since the first arena in season 1.

A huge solo queue system, with different rewards equally as attractive as the gladiator’s storm drake, but with more… diversity in the queues. What’s your opinion?
That would be interesting to see how high rated people play together with random team composition and against random team composition without any voice software. (Streaming it would be interesting too.).

The reward system is outdated too. Having to wait the end of a season is cool but there should be something in between... with currencies earned in arenas or whatever.

Edited by Jim_Jim, 28 November 2016 - 10:28 AM.

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#28 4rtist

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 10:35 AM

I think this kind of system could be good in the beginning, but will probably be extremely selective with time. Just like how the PvE one works. Not because of the system itself, but how people react and play with each others. People will ask achievements (“Ahead to the curve or no inv”), people will ask specific class/spec, and as said before, the poor guy who play the weak spec of the week will never have a queue at all, no-one will ask him to play with.
And the PvE one is way more… neutral, in the way that the bosses are always the same, and you can be easily invited just because you have a better gear. A PvP one would be way more elitist, because you can’t predict how the fight will go, your gear will not be an indicator of “Ok, this guy will be good in the group.”. Right now, a group ask for Helya achievement for Trial of Valor, in 4 weeks, after Nighthold, people will just see your 910 gear, and invite you without questions.

The idea of finding other people to play with is good, but I’m not sure about the benefits of the system you show.
What’s your opinion about the same system as we have now, with a different ladder, with a different rating, with loots… but instead of queuing as 3, you can only queue solo, and only solo. So you are mixed up with people for your own mmr, with random spec and classes, and you play against people with random spec and classes. Add to this a system who punish people leaving because “Oh no, it’s a holy priest” without hurting the holy priest, and everyone can queue something with his own spec. This is my experience in Moba’s for example, I usually queue solo 99% of the time because It’s like playing WoW Vanilla, you play a solo game, but with people around you, and then you have to adapt to your mates’s heroes/role. And sometimes, you find someone friendly or good enough to play together. And more important : in solo queue, I can play anything I want, compared to the rated one where I have to pick the right character if there is no tank, and avoid some because “the meta is not good for him”.

Right now if you queue at specific and regular hours (In my case for exemple, it’s usually after work and dinner, so between 20:00 – 23:30), you will face few teams, usually 50% of them are FotW – now in my opinion, it’s ret/huntSV/rdruid -, but they will be the same players, until they naturally stop for X reasons.). Add to this some websites like xunamate where you can spy people, and you end up saying “Ok, I’m gonna play Overwatch, there are 4 differents liberty queuing.”

The big problem right now with arenas queues is that people have no reason to queue after a particular rating, you face only the same people playing the best comp of the week, and people doesn’t really want to continue playing with the same people after one defeat (Like in PvE, try to do a Trial of Valor HM now, it’s funny to see how much people are patient with wipes and the others), especially with how balanced WoW is since the first arena in season 1.

A huge solo queue system, with different rewards equally as attractive as the gladiator’s storm drake, but with more… diversity in the queues. What’s your opinion?
That would be interesting to see how high rated people play together with random team composition and against random team composition without any voice software. (Streaming it would be interesting too.).

The reward system is outdated too. Having to wait the end of a season is cool but there should be something in between... with currencies earned in arenas or whatever.

I feel like theres some good shit here but its really long can u tldr thanks


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#29 ProdeGaming

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 03:12 PM

The idea of finding other people to play with is good, but I’m not sure about the benefits of the system you show.

 

Say someone wants an SP for 2300 mmr. In order to find, could need to go group finder to check, or could ~click a button that checks it for you. Basically, because it's certainly more difficult to use group finder than ~just pushing a button, players possibly use a similar feature more often -> more players in LFG at a time -> easier and quicker to find 3v3 teams


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#30 Refren

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Posted 28 November 2016 - 08:28 PM

u cant let player pick the classes he wants to q with in "soloQ" certain specs will never get any games

 

 

and i dont rly understand "minimum mmr" 

 

 

id much rather prefer a AT soloq system but that would probably kill 3v3 ladder unless it was seperate bracket and it gave some super shitty rewards 


Edited by Refren, 28 November 2016 - 08:30 PM.

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