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*Returning player (Sub. Rogue) LF outline/input Legion XP*


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#1 Shekirei

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 11:48 PM

Afternoon all,

 

​I'm planning on returning to WoW shortly, as I've been inactive for about four years now, give or take (tail-end of Cataclysm).  I'm looking for an up to date guide/template for the state of Rogue's in PvP, particularly that of subtlety as it pertains to BG's, etc. as I don't plan on tapping into Arena until I've become comfortable with the current gameplay.

 

Although dated, my only Arena experience that I have truly​ enjoyed, was that of my old Warr. I ran in S3 TBC with my Resto. Shammy friend/partner "Anlore/Crypto(s), and earning Glad.  After S3, I took yet another break, and returned towards the end of Cata. in which I decided to level a Rogue (subtlety), and never looked back.  I absolutely ​love​ the ability to pick my engagements at my discretion, the CC/utility of the class, the burst dmg. and the effectiveness at rolling solo in BG's without relying on pocket heals, etc.

 

I have done my due diligence, and have used the Google-machine, AJ threads, and other tools to gather info. on the most current state of Rogue's in PvP, however most of them seem to have not been updated in some time.  Once again, I'm looking to you all, my peers and the AJ community as a whole for an up to date brief on the current state of Rogue's as they pertain to PvP, and the best route to take once I re-join you all online.  I did however find guides by "Beechee" and "noxxic," (can't embed as I was unfortunately forced to create a new Curse/AJ account), but cannot speak to the accuracy.  I prioritize the input of my AJ peers foremost, as you guys have always been great in the past, and definitely aided me and my buddy in chasing Glad.

 

Thanks in advance for all of your feedback and help, much appreciated.

 

-Cheers all

 


Edited by shekirei, 08 November 2016 - 11:51 PM.

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#2 Shekirei

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Posted 08 November 2016 - 11:53 PM

*P.S. how are Demon Hunters performing in PvP?

 

​-Cheers friends


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#3 Maccadin

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 12:07 AM

*P.S. how are Demon Hunters performing in PvP?

 

​-Cheers friends

DH's have pretty low representation due to being a new class and only 1 playable spec in arena so to be expected but seem to perform ok, they suffer from the massive window inbetween meta uses.

 

Legion was all about assassination rogues until they got nerfed so only now are people really switching sub, I don't know about guides but you can watch on twitch 'Nahj' who has been playing sub lately pretty successfully.


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#4 Shekirei

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 12:59 AM

DH's have pretty low representation due to being a new class and only 1 playable spec in arena so to be expected but seem to perform ok, they suffer from the massive window inbetween meta uses.

 

Legion was all about assassination rogues until they got nerfed so only now are people really switching sub, I don't know about guides but you can watch on twitch 'Nahj' who has been playing sub lately pretty successfully.

 

Okay great, I figured as much on DH's.

 

As for Sub. Rogue's, yeah looking for a solid guide/template to gather info. on and try and cover some ground/content that I've obviously missed during my long absence from the game.  I'll definitely check out those vid's./feeds online as I've checked out the respective player rankings and saw the gamer at the top of the list, but tried to armory and was unable to profile view.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

-Cheers


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#5 Maccadin

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 01:23 AM

Okay great, I figured as much on DH's.

 

As for Sub. Rogue's, yeah looking for a solid guide/template to gather info. on and try and cover some ground/content that I've obviously missed during my long absence from the game.  I'll definitely check out those vid's./feeds online as I've checked out the respective player rankings and saw the gamer at the top of the list, but tried to armory and was unable to profile view.

 

Thanks for the input.

 

-Cheers

armory is weird sometimes only place you can see current talents, I use wowprogress when looking up characters so you can also see things like artifact traits.


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#6 Shekirei

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 01:33 AM

armory is weird sometimes only place you can see current talents, I use wowprogress when looking up characters so you can also see things like artifact

​"wowprogress," sounds good.  I'll give that a look for sure.

 

​-Cheers


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#7 Shekirei

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 02:09 AM

​Any more Glad. input/direction on this thread?

 

​Thanks as always,

 

​-Cheers


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#8 Yosindrax

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 07:39 AM

For teaching yourself knowlegde about Sub rogue and how they do in 2s and 3s watch:

 

For 3s gameplay:

twitch.tv/nahj

For 2s gameplay:
twitch.tv/alessiaftw

For talents, just watch a few past broadcasts from these two streamers showing their talents/honor talents in arena against the different teams theyre facing.


Both has been successful with Sub and both should be around 2.7k MMR in their brackets. You will see in specially 2s that Sub can struggle hard against some comps. But yea.. it's just 2s. Just so you're warned, you may loose to comps no matter how perfect your gameplay is.

- Yosindrax


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#9 Shekirei

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Posted 09 November 2016 - 11:17 PM

For teaching yourself knowlegde about Sub rogue and how they do in 2s and 3s watch:

 

For 3s gameplay:

twitch.tv/nahj

For 2s gameplay:
twitch.tv/alessiaftw

For talents, just watch a few past broadcasts from these two streamers showing their talents/honor talents in arena against the different teams theyre facing.


Both has been successful with Sub and both should be around 2.7k MMR in their brackets. You will see in specially 2s that Sub can struggle hard against some comps. But yea.. it's just 2s. Just so you're warned, you may loose to comps no matter how perfect your gameplay is.

- Yosindrax

Okay great, thanks for the input.

 

From what I've read it seems Sub. stam & burst has been nerfed, and apparently Feral 7.1 was a "bit" crazy lol?  

 

So is Sub. still competitive in PvP?

 

And what classes are sweeping these days?

 

Thanks again,

 

-Cheers


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#10 Conditions

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Posted 10 November 2016 - 01:51 AM

Okay great, thanks for the input.

 

From what I've read it seems Sub. stam & burst has been nerfed, and apparently Feral 7.1 was a "bit" crazy lol?  

 

So is Sub. still competitive in PvP?

 

And what classes are sweeping these days?

 

Thanks again,

 

-Cheers

Feral is still a "bit" crazy.

Sub is competitive, but not nearly as much as it used to be because of meta. Damage and MS are worth more than any kind of CC in Legion (lol) but RMD is still decent. RMP is nice too but not as good as RMD. They nerfed stam/burst to spite Assassination despite the fact no-one ever really complained about Sub.

Frost DKs and Enhancement Shamans are sick.


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#11 Shekirei

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Posted 10 November 2016 - 05:30 AM

Feral is still a "bit" crazy.

Sub is competitive, but not nearly as much as it used to be because of meta. Damage and MS are worth more than any kind of CC in Legion (lol) but RMD is still decent. RMP is nice too but not as good as RMD. They nerfed stam/burst to spite Assassination despite the fact no-one ever really complained about Sub.

Frost DKs and Enhancement Shamans are sick.

That's a shame about Sub., as I've never had as much fun in-game BG's/Arena, aside from perhaps leveling my Hunter.  (on a side note how is Marks. doing these days?)  

 

You mentioned Dmg. & MS taking priority over CC, I loved the utility Sub. provided, has this landscape changed drastically?

 

Do you personally still roll Sub., or does Assassination simply out perform?

 

I don't have a DK, but I do have a benched Shammy., what in particular is allowing them to excel at such an impressive level?

 

Thanks again for all of your extremely useful feedback,

 

-Cheers


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#12 Conditions

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Posted 10 November 2016 - 12:41 PM

Hunters are under-represented, they only have one really good comp because KFC just simply isn't good.

Yes the landscape has changed, the more mongo damage you do, the better state your class is in. Spammable CC (ie polymorph, fear) still has its' uses.

More people play Sub in US, more people are Assassination in EU, make of that what you will.

Stupid damage.


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#13 Shekirei

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Posted 11 November 2016 - 02:33 AM

Hunters are under-represented, they only have one really good comp because KFC just simply isn't good.

Yes the landscape has changed, the more mongo damage you do, the better state your class is in. Spammable CC (ie polymorph, fear) still has its' uses.

More people play Sub in US, more people are Assassination in EU, make of that what you will.

Stupid damage.

"Stupid damage," Assassination yes?

 

What is your personal hypothesis as to why more US players run Sub?

 

-Cheers & Thanks again


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#14 Shekirei

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Posted 11 November 2016 - 02:37 AM

P.S. What's the current state of Warr's. and Pally's. in PvP these days?  Is Arms. & Holy still viable?


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#15 Conditions

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Posted 11 November 2016 - 01:05 PM

"Stupid damage," Assassination yes?

 

What is your personal hypothesis as to why more US players run Sub?

 

-Cheers & Thanks again

No, DKs.

Honestly you're better off asking an American. When we were all playing RMP and Godcomp on EU once, all the Americans were playing Turbo and TSG. Both our ladders are equally competitive so I don't have an explanation for it.

 

P.S. What's the current state of Warr's. and Pally's. in PvP these days?  Is Arms. & Holy still viable?

Warriors are shit, Holy Paladins are good - Rets are too subsceptible to being trained.

Arms and Holy isn't particularly viable (2s) - Arms defensives are few and far between and most other 2s comps can just train your Holy and win in the long run.


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#16 Shekirei

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Posted 12 November 2016 - 05:37 AM

No, DKs.

Honestly you're better off asking an American. When we were all playing RMP and Godcomp on EU once, all the Americans were playing Turbo and TSG. Both our ladders are equally competitive so I don't have an explanation for it.

 

Warriors are shit, Holy Paladins are good - Rets are too subsceptible to being trained.

Arms and Holy isn't particularly viable (2s) - Arms defensives are few and far between and most other 2s comps can just train your Holy and win in the long run.

Okay great, will do.  

 

Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated.

 

-Cheers


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#17 Besabaftw

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 01:13 PM

Sub doesn't really have much in the way of burst anymore, but you can sap all day with the redesign of shadow dance. It's decent sustain, but compared to other classes atm our damage is lacking by a lot. To the point where you see windwalker/M/P instead of rogue. 7.1 pretty much wrecked us in that regard.

 

Not that rogue isn't viable, it's just gone from excellent to b tier. I even see rbg groups saying "no rogues". 7.15 isn't looking better either.

 

Sorry for the doom and gloom, you can still get things done but it's going to be frustrating when you outplay the fuck out of ppl and still lose to turbo connecting on your healer/yourself/partner and basically 100-0 in 2 sec. Or walking dead, etc.


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#18 Shekirei

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 09:43 PM

*UPDATE 4/25/17*

 

G'Afternoon all,

 

So after several months passed, I finally have enough time in my College schedule to actually play, albeit it casually for sure.

 

That said, it's been almost five plus years since I've played, and I realize it's going to take a "tad" to get up to speed on the state of the game, etc. (which I've "heard" is in a broken state as PvP is concerned, 'hooray?!'...)

 

I've done quite a bit of reading & research on Sub. Rogue's at this point in the game (7.2.0), and the most up to date PvP guide I've found is the following (obviously I'm not able to attest to it's reliability/accuracy):  http://www.noxxic.co...rogue/subtlety/

 

The next order of business is trying to ascertain a "decent" set-up for my ability keybinds, if anyone would be so kind as to give me a quick breakdown/example of their layout, or a fairly comfortable one I could test drive in PvP it would be much appreciated.

 

And on one final side note, what 2's/3's comp. should I be looking for running Sub?  I have not played "seriously" (LOL) since S3/TBC... Ergo, I have absolutely zero clue on what will be viable (or even "fun") these days.

 

Thanks again all

-Cheers as always


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#19 Shekirei

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Posted 25 April 2017 - 10:11 PM

P.S. Suggestions on proper addons/UI input is also fantastic information,

Thanks!

 

-Cheers 


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#20 Shekirei

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Posted 27 April 2017 - 02:40 AM

G'Evening all,

 

Anyone able to chime in this evening, feedback/pointers/insight would be much appreciated,

-Cheers


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