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Unholy Death Knight Arena opinions

death knight unholy arena guide help

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#1 Anquish

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Posted 04 November 2016 - 03:46 PM

Okay, so I would like to ask your opinions and helps on how to correctly play Unholy DK on arena (2v2 and 3v3).

Usually I play with my friends, and we always have a healer (druid or monk) in the group. The 3rd possible member are retri pala, rogue or hunter.

We play arena daily, but we simply cannot reach higher than 1650 rating.

I would like to ask your opinions, or even help how to get better. Which is the better tactic? Focus a DPS and CC healer or simply rush to the healer and burst him? First we tried the healer burst tactic, but we we lost more matches than won, because since DKs are very slow without mobility, and the healers are too mobile, except the disc priest who is simply indestructible.

Currently I am using the bursting sores talent build, which mostly empowers my clawing shadow and festering wound stacking and damage. Feels like the only acceptable talent for me, but maybe I am wrong, thats why I ask you.

I checked the 2v2 and 3v3 ladder DK talents, and there are some things I would like to ask you:
1. Most DK use the All Will Serve talent. I guess the reason is that the ghoul can be easily killed, so they can resummon it quickly. Still, i find its damage output lower than the bursting sores.
2. Simply EVERYONE using Castigator instead of Clawing Shadow. Just... why? I mean i could punch through the screen when enemies are kiting me and I cant do anything. With Clawing Shadow, I can damage them at least if they have wound on them. Since honor talents cannot be checked, i can only assume they use it because they use Necrotic Strike instead of bursting the wounds into damage.
3. Is Necrotic Strike worth? I mean, healing absorb, cool. But lets say I deal 50k dmg +100k healing absorb. Why is that better than dealing damage? Currently I am using Unholy Mutation,

So can you suggest on talents, honor talents and tactics?

Thank you if you can help me with some advice.

ATM my rating on arena:
2v2: 1563
3v3: 1509

Basic Talent: 2/3/3/2/2/3/3
Honor Talent: 1/2/2/3/1/1
 


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#2 Warmonger_Skulm

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 01:33 AM

I must start by saying that you should give frost a try, since the buffs it received post 7.1 (even after the 10% str nerf) works in favor of the spec. Play style is different though.

 

If you want to ignore what I just said and stick to unholy, you could play TWD (The walking dead - DK + WW Monk + Hpal / MW), the basic idea is to focus a dps while death gripping the healer etc into the fist stun to increase pressure and hopefully get a kill. All the setups you mention (Dk/Ret, Dk/Rogue, Dk/Hunter) have different strategies and tactics. For DK/Ret, I would suggest playing Frost though.

 

You should know that there is not a single strategy which will enable you to win all games. Sometimes zerging a healer seems like the only choice because the enemy setup is kinda anti for your setup, and sometimes you might want to focus a dps to keep control of the game. So, create at least 2 different strats according to the enemy team's line-up.

 

You may say that the dmg output of all will serve is lesser than the bursting sores, but it gives you a ranged pet and resets the ghoul summon CD, which are quite useful is macro'd corretly. By the way, the All Will Serve talent had its prime before the nerf, b/c you could actually use Corpse Shield, get the damage reduction buff, and then dismiss your pet with macro. So your ghoul wouldn't die from damage and you could just resummon it. This is fixed though :) Take a look at this post for a laugh http://us.battle.net...pic/20747754694

 

The more wounds you apply the better, since Festering Strike (FS) takes away your runes. Castigator kinda compensates for that. But I understand the desire you have for using Clawing Shadows.

 

Just because you have Necrotic Strike doesn't mean that you should be using it all the time over your Scourge Strike. Necrotic Strike is best used to create pressure and opportunity to get the burst going. So, for example, you can burst your target during a CC on healer and towards the end of the CC you can start NS'ing to keep the pressure up. That is just one example though. Basically, try applying enough NS to keep the pressure going, then try bursting. Oh and you should use your big burst as >> Have 8 wounds up, then activate Soul Reaper, then cast Apocalypse.

 

Usually UH honor talents will be as (skipping the first 2 tiers where you take glad medallion etc): AMZ, Decomposing Aura for TWD (You might use Necrotic when you play with your Ret partner), Crypt Fever and Necrotic Strike.

 

UH talents may be selected (depends on your style) as : AWS, BRW, Castigator, Asphyxiate / Sludge Belcher (improved defensive for Corpse Shield and dmg etc), Corpse Shield (against meleecleaves) / Spell Eater (against spell cleaves), Infected Claws (again, this may save you from using FS, but for this tier I love Necrosis actually), Soul Reaper.

 

Basically, spamming Necrotics will never hurt that much, since you will be building up pressure, which will lead to a kill. Remember, you are applying necrotics which prevent the enemy healing, and your teammate is putting out damage. So damage is being prioritized over healing in that situation.

 

For ratings, I don't want to state the most fundamental things here, but you should coordinate / communicate with your partners. As previously mentioned, have at least 2 dominant strategies, one could be tunnelvisioning and one would be making a fast switch to healer via deathgrip. Let your teammates know about your CD's, when you have burst available, and when you don't have any defensives left.

 

Observe the enemy's Walling CD's, you don't want to waste your big burst when the enemy targets walls.

 

And most importantly, never ever give up. The fact that you are struggling at 1500-1600 does not mean you won't get higher, always try to improve yourself, think about what could have been better etc.

 

Before the arena game starts, adjust your talents according to the enemy team so that you get the maximum advantage.

 

Sorry for my long post, it may not be the best advice for you, maybe some other people will contribute as well, but these are my thoughts. Just keep playing no matter what and good luck !


Edited by Warmonger_Skulm, 05 November 2016 - 01:36 AM.

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#3 moneky

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 08:10 AM

All will serve is a really good talent compared to improved damage on festering wounds. Even though recount doesn't really have much to say in arena as a game could go on for ages and the 10 seconds of a perfect align of abilities could be the reason you win. But it's usually on top of the damage meters also it allows you to spam dismiss your pet and summon a new one, as you rather want a full hp pet before you use corpse shield than a 30% one due to cleave or dotts. Some classes take advantage of the fact you got a pet to put dots on it aswell for additional procs so it's not unusual for your pet to be sitting under 50% hp. Always make sure to try to use huddle aswell, preferably in enraged form so it can still deal damage

With the basic pvp template you're sitting at around 20% critt - abit under usually but It's not too bad, clawing shadows may seem decent but It's damage is reduced in pvp afaik, but it's a talent you can play, and especially with all the high mobility spells using it as someone escapes at low health and you want to push out damage it could be good. But I prefer castigator recently and playing with necrotic strike ofcourse. It's usually while you're connected to the target that he will die not when he's 40yards away being healed up and taking a little claw damage altough it's all situational.


When it comes to 3v3 there's alot of different tactics that would lead to a win, and it's something you should always discuss with your partners after a loss, what you should of done different and what you all felt went wrong. And someone you could check out that I know streams not that I've watched anyone much but cervantes is a decant death knight that I think streams often.

In 2v2 I've found alot of success switching targets and keeping festering strike applied to both and slowly working them down( unholy death knights has some rot capabilities to drain players down without doing much), ofcourse there's times you can sit on a target and eventually kill him, or push him down instantly but I feel target swapping alot and putting split pressure has worked very well against many comps especially druids as they have to constantly swap hots around at most times, or shamans with earth Shields or other abilities. But I see most people just train into one person and that works too, eitherway discussing with your partner and having a long term play relationship is what will make you climb eventually if you're not a very experienced player

Edited by moneky, 05 November 2016 - 08:16 AM.

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#4 Anquish

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 12:46 PM

I must start by saying that you should give frost a try, since the buffs it received post 7.1 (even after the 10% str nerf) works in favor of the spec. Play style is different though.

Yes, the sad thing is that I can only reach higher rating on frost. I know how to play Frost, and reach higher ranks on Frost than Unholy. I just prefer and enjoy Unholy more, but it is very saddening how much "weaker" it is in PvP.

 

 

You should know that there is not a single strategy which will enable you to win all games. Sometimes zerging a healer seems like the only choice because the enemy setup is kinda anti for your setup, and sometimes you might want to focus a dps to keep control of the game. So, create at least 2 different strats according to the enemy team's line-up.

Yes, we always try different tactic on different enemy setups, often changing targets. For example, focusing the healer but when DPS get to low HP due to cleave damage, we CC healer and kill DPS. Or something like that. In 3v3 it seems like it works pretty well, tho I still find it less succesful than playing on Frost, charge in the face of enemies and do nothing else but dealing tons of damage.

 

Just because you have Necrotic Strike doesn't mean that you should be using it all the time over your Scourge Strike. Necrotic Strike is best used to create pressure and opportunity to get the burst going. So, for example, you can burst your target during a CC on healer and towards the end of the CC you can start NS'ing to keep the pressure up. That is just one example though. Basically, try applying enough NS to keep the pressure going, then try bursting. Oh and you should use your big burst as >> Have 8 wounds up, then activate Soul Reaper, then cast Apocalypse.

 

Basically, spamming Necrotics will never hurt that much, since you will be building up pressure, which will lead to a kill. Remember, you are applying necrotics which prevent the enemy healing, and your teammate is putting out damage. So damage is being prioritized over healing in that situation.

The Soul Reaper - Apocalypse combo works pretty fine, always using it.
So you  say, in necrotic strike talent, I kinda like a "support" that prevents the target to recieve healing while my teammate killing the target, making the enemy healer less effective? We tried that, seemed like it even worked... in 3v3. But what about in 2v2? With this theory, should I play with a damage dealer friend? I though (according to previous expansions) healer + DPS could reach higher rating than a dps duo team, but maybe I am wrong.
Other thing about Necrosis strike in 2v2: So shouldnt I apply Necrotic in 2v2 always, but rather swapping it? Like applying some healing absorb, and if the enemy reach low HP, just change to Scourge Strike and dealing damage?

 

All will serve is a really good talent compared to improved damage on festering wounds. Even though recount doesn't really have much to say in arena as a game could go on for ages and the 10 seconds of a perfect align of abilities could be the reason you win. But it's usually on top of the damage meters also it allows you to spam dismiss your pet and summon a new one, as you rather want a full hp pet before you use corpse shield than a 30% one due to cleave or dotts. Some classes take advantage of the fact you got a pet to put dots on it aswell for additional procs so it's not unusual for your pet to be sitting under 50% hp. Always make sure to try to use huddle aswell, preferably in enraged form so it can still deal damage

Yeah, good point. Thats really true, very annoying when they kill my pet and it is on cooldown so I cannot resummon it.

Oh and about the talents:
What do you thing, which one is better? Shadow Infusion or Infected Claws. The bonus stacks on the enemies are very useful sometimes, but enraged pet deals like 2 or 3 times more than in normal form, and with Shadow Infusion I can keep him transformed almost all the times. And if I go to Necrotic Strike talent in 2v2, shouldnt I need that damage that the enraged pet deals, over the the plus stacks?

 

Overall, thank you for every advice and help. I will do my best. It is just frustrating how the Frost is easier and still much "stronger" than the Unholy.


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#5 moneky

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 12:59 PM

Yes, the sad thing is that I can only reach higher rating on frost. I know how to play Frost, and reach higher ranks on Frost than Unholy. I just prefer and enjoy Unholy more, but it is very saddening how much "weaker" it is in PvP.
 
 


Yes, we always try different tactic on different enemy setups, often changing targets. For example, focusing the healer but when DPS get to low HP due to cleave damage, we CC healer and kill DPS. Or something like that. In 3v3 it seems like it works pretty well, tho I still find it less succesful than playing on Frost, charge in the face of enemies and do nothing else but dealing tons of damage.
 


The Soul Reaper - Apocalypse combo works pretty fine, always using it.
So you  say, in necrotic strike talent, I kinda like a "support" that prevents the target to recieve healing while my teammate killing the target, making the enemy healer less effective? We tried that, seemed like it even worked... in 3v3. But what about in 2v2? With this theory, should I play with a damage dealer friend? I though (according to previous expansions) healer + DPS could reach higher rating than a dps duo team, but maybe I am wrong.
Other thing about Necrosis strike in 2v2: So shouldnt I apply Necrotic in 2v2 always, but rather swapping it? Like applying some healing absorb, and if the enemy reach low HP, just change to Scourge Strike and dealing damage?
 


Yeah, good point. Thats really true, very annoying when they kill my pet and it is on cooldown so I cannot resummon it.
Oh and about the talents:
What do you thing, which one is better? Shadow Infusion or Infected Claws. The bonus stacks on the enemies are very useful sometimes, but enraged pet deals like 2 or 3 times more than in normal form, and with Shadow Infusion I can keep him transformed almost all the times. And if I go to Necrotic Strike talent in 2v2, shouldnt I need that damage that the enraged pet deals, over the the plus stacks?
 
Overall, thank you for every advice and help. I will do my best. It is just frustrating how the Frost is easier and still much "stronger" than the Unholy.


I play with infected claws
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#6 Fennixqt

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 02:01 PM

You can stick to unholy for sure, even tho frost is easier to play. On that rating it doesn't really matter what talents or comp you play, but rather with who you play it, just try finding better partners and you will do fine :)


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#7 Warmonger_Skulm

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 02:49 PM

 

The Soul Reaper - Apocalypse combo works pretty fine, always using it.
So you  say, in necrotic strike talent, I kinda like a "support" that prevents the target to recieve healing while my teammate killing the target, making the enemy healer less effective? We tried that, seemed like it even worked... in 3v3. But what about in 2v2? With this theory, should I play with a damage dealer friend? I though (according to previous expansions) healer + DPS could reach higher rating than a dps duo team, but maybe I am wrong.
Other thing about Necrosis strike in 2v2: So shouldnt I apply Necrotic in 2v2 always, but rather swapping it? Like applying some healing absorb, and if the enemy reach low HP, just change to Scourge Strike and dealing damage?

 

 

 

Overall, thank you for every advice and help. I will do my best. It is just frustrating how the Frost is easier and still much "stronger" than the Unholy.

 

 

Tbh, my previous post was focusing on 3v3, since I don't play 2v2. However, for 2v2, I think you can play with a healer partner, you basically use necrotic strike to create a kill opportunity, since the damage will sink in b/c of healing absorption. For example, MW is a good 2v2 partner for you, because of the incap CC. During the CC window you can sink in the damage and then continue applying necrotics and after that you can swap to the healer (healer will be busy trying to top the low hp dps). Just don't switch all the time, maximize your efforts on training someone and then making a crucial switch to blow your CD's with your partner, it will get better in time.

 

Good luck and thanks !


Edited by Warmonger_Skulm, 05 November 2016 - 02:49 PM.

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#8 Anquish

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 05:02 PM

Tbh, my previous post was focusing on 3v3, since I don't play 2v2. However, for 2v2, I think you can play with a healer partner, you basically use necrotic strike to create a kill opportunity, since the damage will sink in b/c of healing absorption. For example, MW is a good 2v2 partner for you, because of the incap CC. During the CC window you can sink in the damage and then continue applying necrotics and after that you can swap to the healer (healer will be busy trying to top the low hp dps). Just don't switch all the time, maximize your efforts on training someone and then making a crucial switch to blow your CD's with your partner, it will get better in time.

 

Good luck and thanks !

 

Amazing. Thanks for everything!


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#9 moneky

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 06:35 PM

I just want to add that i don't think that frost is much stronger if you play properly, but they can do alot more damage with less globals, as it feels unholy has one two many globals on certain abilities that makes it feel abit worse especially with how much mobility and how certain classes can get away at a cruical moment of your setup


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#10 Warmonger_Skulm

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Posted 05 November 2016 - 08:22 PM

Amazing. Thanks for everything!

 

My pleasure


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