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#21 KIA Skill

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 05:54 AM

I also forgot to add that disc can only dispel 2 things where every other class can dispel 3 different types of things. And one of them is diseases sooo.... basically 1 thing...

Disc is honestly just outdated and shit. They aren't even close to the cookie cutter healer build that blizzard apparently wants and in order to be good just straight up need more buttons.

EVERY other healer has WAYYYYYYY more tools than disc to control the outcome of a game. Disc is 100% carried if it ever does well. The only difference between a god disc and a shit one is juking and deathing stuff, which might not even win you the game anyways. They're all too busy slugging around turreting shadowmends desperately trying to catch up all game.

When I lose on my shaman or druid I can look at my buttons and think "Hmmmm.... Maybe i could have pressed this or that or this or that there...." On my priest its just "Lol I pressed all 7 of my buttons and we lost xd".

All the brainless idiots have to say is "LOL 2 HEALING SCHOOLS, disc is fine" but MW monks actually have more buttons they can press than disc priests being locked out in either of their schools.

I 100% guarantee you won't see a disc at blizzcon, the class is outdated trash.


Edited by KIA Skill, 01 November 2016 - 05:56 AM.

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#22 ContortedTV

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 08:55 AM

Shaman is worse than Disc

 

Lol.


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#23 Naac

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 08:18 PM

Discs problem is that it just has no niche anymore. 

 

We always had the least mobility and some of the worst defensive CD's... that was fine.   We made up for it with the offensive pressure we could generate, but now we aren't even the best at that.

 

Why bring a priest, when a holy paladin can do more damage (while healing his teammates for 200% of the dmg done without needing to apply atonement or anything) , while still having the best healing throughput and the best defensive CDs?   

 

So what do we offer?  It's not instant healing/absorbs anymore.,.. PW:S heals for what, like 160k? And there's absolutely zero dispel protection anyway. 

 

It's not CC... PW:S is MAYBE better than HoJ, but every other heal has so much mobility that good luck actually trying to use it.  Druids have the CC they've always had, Shamans have a 10 second CD HEX, and monks have an instant cast ranged incap AND an aoe STUN with a CD that's only 15 seconds longer if we talent our fear down to 30?  

 

It's not healing throughput (probably due to PW:S being so dogshit).  

 

Paladins do more damage, and they do it all insta-cast, while healing their team for 4x more than we can heal our teammates for.  Sure it's a minute cooldown, but it has a 20 second duration.  

 

It's also not dispels.  They decided to give all healers defensive dispel in whatever shit expac while giving priests nothing in return.  And it's not offensive dispel either because funnily enough, the only healer that it's actually remotely good against is other disc priests. It costs way too much fucking mana to ever use against something like a druid.   

 

It sure as shit isn't defensive cooldowns either, I don't think I need to expand on that at all. 

 

So what's our niche?   We are the healer that in the rare chance we can free cast and no one needs topped off, we can do maybe 10% more damage than a holy paladin?  

 

 

Sorry, but I think it's clear why the other healers that all have better CC, better defensive CDs, more healing throughput, more mobility and in some cases better damage are doing better than disc priests.  

 

Our one saving grace is that shadowmend is on a different school... so now instead of just chaining shadowmend, I can chain shadowmend AND clarity of will.   If shadowmend didn't exist, priests would be in the worst state they've probably ever been in.    And even with it existing, it's not actually fun to enter an arena and have to spam shadowmend 12 times in a row with PI and archangel and still not see anyone actually get topped off.     I don't know about you guys, but I rarely have a chance to actually do damage in 3's.  


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#24 Angrypiexx

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 09:11 PM

Discs problem is that it just has no niche anymore. 

 

We always had the least mobility and some of the worst defensive CD's... that was fine.   We made up for it with the offensive pressure we could generate, but now we aren't even the best at that.

 

Why bring a priest, when a holy paladin can do more damage (while healing his teammates for 200% of the dmg done without needing to apply atonement or anything) , while still having the best healing throughput and the best defensive CDs?   

 

So what do we offer?  It's not instant healing/absorbs anymore.,.. PW:S heals for what, like 160k? And there's absolutely zero dispel protection anyway. 

 

It's not CC... PW:S is MAYBE better than HoJ, but every other heal has so much mobility that good luck actually trying to use it.  Druids have the CC they've always had, Shamans have a 10 second CD HEX, and monks have an instant cast ranged incap AND an aoe STUN with a CD that's only 15 seconds longer if we talent our fear down to 30?  

 

It's not healing throughput (probably due to PW:S being so dogshit).  

 

Paladins do more damage, and they do it all insta-cast, while healing their team for 4x more than we can heal our teammates for.  Sure it's a minute cooldown, but it has a 20 second duration.  

 

It's also not dispels.  They decided to give all healers defensive dispel in whatever shit expac while giving priests nothing in return.  And it's not offensive dispel either because funnily enough, the only healer that it's actually remotely good against is other disc priests. It costs way too much fucking mana to ever use against something like a druid.   

 

It sure as shit isn't defensive cooldowns either, I don't think I need to expand on that at all. 

 

So what's our niche?   We are the healer that in the rare chance we can free cast and no one needs topped off, we can do maybe 10% more damage than a holy paladin?  

 

 

Sorry, but I think it's clear why the other healers that all have better CC, better defensive CDs, more healing throughput, more mobility and in some cases better damage are doing better than disc priests.  

 

Our one saving grace is that shadowmend is on a different school... so now instead of just chaining shadowmend, I can chain shadowmend AND clarity of will.   If shadowmend didn't exist, priests would be in the worst state they've probably ever been in.    And even with it existing, it's not actually fun to enter an arena and have to spam shadowmend 12 times in a row with PI and archangel and still not see anyone actually get topped off.     I don't know about you guys, but I rarely have a chance to actually do damage in 3's.  

 

 

well you are pretty much right. Jew few things 

 

1) druid have more cc than they used to have (now they got that vortex bullshit included on the price which, combined with the roflmao mobility, is really good.

They also got a huge "oh shit" button called iron bark which funny enough is better than PS and has less than a min cd LOL

 

2) Paralysis for monk is not only sick as cc but it's pretty amazing if u get kicked (like that can ever happen) or silenced: para melee or caster into leg swipe is needed. Even if silenced you can still roll the fuck away (lololol). Also, why the fuck do they have an aura mastery any way whilst they can cast while moving in perma auramastery for shooting mist ? 

 

How you fix priest in few easy moves 

 

1) Penance can now be casted on friendly target BASELINE. You can now choose between Schism (higher dmg), penance with 4 ticks (bit more dmg or more heals) and a third talent that either makes shield 2 charges or makes its cd being half of what it is aka 4 secs. To be honest, having same shielding capability than a shadow priest is actually pretty fuckin stupid.

2) Shadow mend fucks off --> Flash heal is back.

 

3) Attonement is now lasts 30secs in pvp (make it a pvp talent, i don't know)

 

4) Fear is 30 secs baseline for disc --> put a new talent. That talent row is fuckin bollocks: one is a useless pushback (i honestly only use it on Arathi Basin and EotS random bgs for the lulz) the other is entirely not usable in pvp (lol thanks blizzard). 

 

 

btw ... how the fuck does this shit spec perform in pve ? I honestly can't imagine how you can heal more than your group with attonement. ... how do you even keep track of all the attonements around without becoming crazy ? 


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#25 Seu

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 12:58 AM

 

 

btw ... how the fuck does this shit spec perform in pve ? 

fine, it performs fine in 2s for the same reason - in 2s and pve you can reliably get smites off. 

 

it also performs well in 3s with an exceptionally good rogue mage, who are able to control well and give the disc the ability to do things other than shadowmend. discs abilities outside of shadowmend/defensive penance/pws are quite strong

 

thats why people like jamie will freak out, and elor will say its fine. elor plays on a very good rmp, jamie plays against very good rmps. in these cases disc is strong

 

the problem is outside of a very good rogue mage the class is very weak in 3s, but its difficult to balance without making those good rmps too strong. the spec feels amazing when the game is going your way, but in 3s I feel less able to carry my team than any previous expansion.


Edited by Seu, 02 November 2016 - 01:02 AM.

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#26 Angrypiexx

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 02:40 AM

fine, it performs fine in 2s for the same reason - in 2s and pve you can reliably get smites off. 

 

it also performs well in 3s with an exceptionally good rogue mage, who are able to control well and give the disc the ability to do things other than shadowmend. discs abilities outside of shadowmend/defensive penance/pws are quite strong

 

thats why people like jamie will freak out, and elor will say its fine. elor plays on a very good rmp, jamie plays against very good rmps. in these cases disc is strong

 

the problem is outside of a very good rogue mage the class is very weak in 3s, but its difficult to balance without making those good rmps too strong. the spec feels amazing when the game is going your way, but in 3s I feel less able to carry my team than any previous expansion.

 

so basically you saying disc is carried in 3s by mage rogue and they would probably be better off with another healer (paladin or druid for instance) as we see em on latest tournaments scenes ?

 

your "spam smite in 2s" thing really depends on what comp you play, tbh. If, for instance, you play with a mage or a rogue, you are just bound to die vs ferals or rets. Guess if you play with a proper feral 2s works well. However, how about other comps, i mean other than rmp ? to be honest, i can't really see how you can keep up ppl on a pve raid (haven't pved as priest yet but i find amazingly hard imagining to keep atonement up on many ppl and the few dungeons mythic i ran, was a lot of ooming cause shadowmend... attonement didn't really seem to cut it).


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#27 KIA Skill

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 03:22 AM

fine, it performs fine in 2s for the same reason - in 2s and pve you can reliably get smites off. 

 

it also performs well in 3s with an exceptionally good rogue mage, who are able to control well and give the disc the ability to do things other than shadowmend. discs abilities outside of shadowmend/defensive penance/pws are quite strong

 

thats why people like jamie will freak out, and elor will say its fine. elor plays on a very good rmp, jamie plays against very good rmps. in these cases disc is strong

 

the problem is outside of a very good rogue mage the class is very weak in 3s, but its difficult to balance without making those good rmps too strong. the spec feels amazing when the game is going your way, but in 3s I feel less able to carry my team than any previous expansion.

Funny part is these teams can replace the r1 priest with a rival holy paladin and have the same rating or probably even go up.

No reason to bring a disc, class is outdated dirt.


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#28 Seu

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 04:16 AM

so basically you saying disc is carried in 3s by mage rogue and they would probably be better off with another healer (paladin or druid for instance) as we see em on latest tournaments scenes ?

 

your "spam smite in 2s" thing really depends on what comp you play, tbh. If, for instance, you play with a mage or a rogue, you are just bound to die vs ferals or rets. Guess if you play with a proper feral 2s works well. However, how about other comps, i mean other than rmp ? 

you guys are really overblowing how bad the class is and its not helping you make your points or seem credible. disc isn't carried, it just cant work well without the control. two magic dispel charges (or more), purge, mass dispel, decent damage, mind control, aoe fear - a good priest on a good rmp can be as strong as other healers. 

 

i get plenty of smites off playing vs ferals or rets while playing with a rogue or mage as well... maybe you guys just need to practice and work on positioning? watch some vods of mehh playing rogue priest or mage priest if you want to see a priest playing offensively in high level 2s (not the very most recent vods, its him quitting over MC bug)

 

and for your last point, comps other than rmp aren't that good... but that makes it hard to balance without making rmp too strong.

 

As for actual constructive feedback I think they should try:

 

- Moving some mastery (~10%) to haste on our default pvp gearing build. Mastery is bad in 3s and Good in 2s. Priests are a little bit too bad in 3s and a little bit too good in 2s - the haste would go a long way here.

 

- Baseline self penance. Its basically a mandatory talent and the spec is balanced around having two healing trees and actually casting, but without aura masteries to back it up. This would give the class more offensive power in 3s by opening up schism.

 

edit: good to see that KIA skill hasn't grown up in the 5 years since I have seen his posts


Edited by Seu, 02 November 2016 - 04:17 AM.

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#29 KIA Skill

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 07:25 AM

you guys are really overblowing how bad the class is and its not helping you make your points or seem credible. disc isn't carried, it just cant work well without the control. two magic dispel charges (or more), purge, mass dispel, decent damage, mind control, aoe fear - a good priest on a good rmp can be as strong as other healers. 

 

i get plenty of smites off playing vs ferals or rets while playing with a rogue or mage as well... maybe you guys just need to practice and work on positioning? watch some vods of mehh playing rogue priest or mage priest if you want to see a priest playing offensively in high level 2s (not the very most recent vods, its him quitting over MC bug)

 

and for your last point, comps other than rmp aren't that good... but that makes it hard to balance without making rmp too strong.

 

As for actual constructive feedback I think they should try:

 

- Moving some mastery (~10%) to haste on our default pvp gearing build. Mastery is bad in 3s and Good in 2s. Priests are a little bit too bad in 3s and a little bit too good in 2s - the haste would go a long way here.

 

- Baseline self penance. Its basically a mandatory talent and the spec is balanced around having two healing trees and actually casting, but without aura masteries to back it up. This would give the class more offensive power in 3s by opening up schism.

 

edit: good to see that KIA skill hasn't grown up in the 5 years since I have seen his posts

So if priests are good in rmp, why did the rogue/mage teams in all the recent tournaments choose to play with druids/paladins over priests? Why will there 100% guaranteed be 0 disc priests at blizzcon? Are they just not good enough to play disc priest? Maybe you should be invited and show everyone how sick you are and how sick disc priests are! I want to see you dominate with those sick ass smites. :)

You're also neglecting to mention the fact that rogues and mages have both been gutted in 7.1, after saying that comps outside of rmp "aren't that good". I was playing rmp at 2450 pre-7.1 and disc didn't feel as bad but deep down I understood I was just getting carried by the mage/rogue class. After 7.1 rmp is a joke. I haven't q'd against a single rmp above 2400 since 7.1 and I honestly doubt I ever will again.

So what you're saying is that disc.... Isn't that good? Because RMP isn't top tier anymore or anywhere close to it and you just admitted that everything a disc can play other than rmp is even worse.... Your logic isn't very solid. Rmp got gutted, and mages got gutted agian in a hotfix today so GL getting anywhere with RMP now.


Edit: Nice to see you haven't grown a brain in 5 years since I've last seen your posts.


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#30 Guiltyas

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 08:14 AM

Priest is definitely viable in comps that aren't RMP, I've been playing disc jungle at 2700 or so and while we struggle with a fair few comps (primarily teams that do damage to multiple targets) we also do fine against most other comps


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#31 Angrypiexx

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 02:48 PM

Priest is definitely viable in comps that aren't RMP, I've been playing disc jungle at 2700 or so and while we struggle with a fair few comps (primarily teams that do damage to multiple targets) we also do fine against most other comps


why would you take a priest instead of a pala as jungle ? i know no decent ferals and if i ask trade or any other source they will tell me: we are looking for a pala/shammy. sorry. your logic is wrong: the fact a few dedicated friends manage to make smtg work does not make that something good. e.g. : take an arcane mage a warrior and a hooy priest. pretty sure if you have it played by good players for a total of 3k games at least, they will eventually reach up to 2400ish rating. does that make those classes any good ?
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#32 Beariorn

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 03:08 PM

RIP RMP


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#33 KIA Skill

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:22 PM

why would you take a priest instead of a pala as jungle ? i know no decent ferals and if i ask trade or any other source they will tell me: we are looking for a pala/shammy. sorry. your logic is wrong: the fact a few dedicated friends manage to make smtg work does not make that something good. e.g. : take an arcane mage a warrior and a hooy priest. pretty sure if you have it played by good players for a total of 3k games at least, they will eventually reach up to 2400ish rating. does that make those classes any good ?

You wouldn't. What people don't understand on these forums it that it isn't impossible to get high rating on a disc. If you have 2 r1 buddies willing to carry your dogshit class, then yeah, you can get high rating. Did you earn it? No, you have almost 0 influence on the game as disc simply because you have half the buttons of every other healer. There is 0 reason to take a disc over any other healer in any comp in the game currently.

I was qing 2500 mmr as disc/ww/frost dk after 7.1, did that mean disc was good?? No, I'm smart enough to grasp that my shit class was getting carried. And it was obvious when we lost against every mirror with a paladin that actually pressed all his buttons, slinging out one of his overpowered cooldowns every 20 seconds while im turreting shadowmends desperately trying to catch up. Train monk+bop karma, enjoy your freelo.

There is currently what I call "the disc wall" at ~2400-2500 on na, which is basically where disc disappears. I haven't seen a single disc priest que above 2400 since 7.1. I've seen every other spec about equally other than holy paladins which just trump everyone, but 0 disc priests. Almost everyone good that plays disc on NA has either quit or reroled.


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#34 Xonika

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:39 PM

why would you take a priest instead of a pala as jungle ? i know no decent ferals and if i ask trade or any other source they will tell me: we are looking for a pala/shammy. sorry. your logic is wrong: the fact a few dedicated friends manage to make smtg work does not make that something good. e.g. : take an arcane mage a warrior and a hooy priest. pretty sure if you have it played by good players for a total of 3k games at least, they will eventually reach up to 2400ish rating. does that make those classes any good ?

why do you argue with players who play more than you, are better and more experienced than you and just overall are less retarded?

ps, you're almost as bias as jaime jeez


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#35 Angrypiexx

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 10:49 PM

why do you argue with players who play more than you, are better and more experienced than you and just overall are less retarded?

ps, you're almost as bias as jaime jeez

 

you are a terrible troll. your arguments are so shit as usual :( 


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#36 Xonika

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 04:49 AM

you are a terrible troll. your arguments are so shit as usual :(

im not trolling that guilty guy has played jungle(and is far from bad) and should know alot better than you, i have also played multiple comps into multiple version of jungle and i also think disc is better than hpala in that comp(for EU ladder atleast) maybe its different down there at 2k(or wherever the fuck you opinions are based off) but i assure you that you arnt always right like you make it out to be

 

atleast when jaime is being biased its semi troll, you're legit retarded


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#37 Angrypiexx

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 05:19 AM

dude, no offence, i might not be the best priest, but you are random nobody. I mean... who the fuck is Xoni anyway? a virgin german trying to call other ppl retarded over a piece of shit videogame ? woah.. you must be swimming in pussy and friends mate.

stick to the subject and do not offend others: do you play priest? do you even know how priest works ? Did we say priest is unplayable ? no. to none of these questions. Now, the question is, outside of high quality partners who will to play with you, a normal guy/girl playing his priest at average level will never be able to improve, simply cause he won't get a shot at all: nobody would ever play with him/her on the basis of his/her class. You can talk ladder as much as you want, fact is any priest streamer (including hydra btw) complains about priests. Everytime i pop by any other major streamer i never see them play with /face a disc priest. Boetar played priest on his ret rogue healer cleave on european tourny and lost to shatter.... now they played the pre blizzcon and he didn't even bother rolling a priest: he played pala beastcleave and, on the same comp, he played druid. You sure as fuck must know the game better or he must be super bad. deal with it: you have no understanding of priest class, you have no idea how the real wow was (talking pre mop, shit was the end of it all) therefore you cannot understand why every priest feels like their character has been gutted turned into a heal spammer. simple as that: you have no idea yet you talk. funny. 

 

now go ahead, call me retard, autistic and all the other random crap you normally write down when you run out of arguments (pretty much 99.9% of times) ... that's your great dialectic skills right there lol


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#38 jaimee

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 05:29 AM

who the fuck is Xoni anyway? a virgin german 


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if you play a disc priest you are not a real human being 


#39 KIA Skill

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 05:56 AM

im not trolling that guilty guy has played jungle(and is far from bad) and should know alot better than you, i have also played multiple comps into multiple version of jungle and i also think disc is better than hpala in that comp(for EU ladder atleast) maybe its different down there at 2k(or wherever the fuck you opinions are based off) but i assure you that you arnt always right like you make it out to be

 

atleast when jaime is being biased its semi troll, you're legit retarded

Disc is probably better on EU because you have a higher chance of q'ing against other disc priests LOL. Most likely due to the huge amount of hydra fanbois and the fact that EU can't be fucked with reroling (or faction changing obviously). On NA, disc doesn't exist past 2400~2500 after 7.1, and won't until a substantial buff happens.


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#40 Guiltyas

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Posted 03 November 2016 - 08:20 AM

I agree that IMO disc is better than Hpal in jungle since you can survive a lot more melee cleaves by yourself, while dps are off killing a healer or some other junglething, Struggles far more vs comps that have pressure on multiple targets, like ele shams, boomkins or spriests. But a healer having strengths and weaknesses is fine


Edited by Guiltyas, 03 November 2016 - 08:22 AM.

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