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Thoughts On Blizzard's DQs


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#1 Glink

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 01:15 AM



Some commentary and thoughts on the recent DQs blizzard did with regionals and just their seemingly ever-changing policy on DQs in general. What do you guys think, do you agree with any of my points and find it odd yourself, or am I wrong and is blizzard right in their actions against players?
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#2 Odrareg

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 01:39 AM

i guess there's a few things to point out:

1) seeing yourself disqualified while others ""cheat"" as much as you and still get their title is just unacceptable. not sure why the rules have to be different for each player

2) i agree that blizzard could focus on having a nicer pvp scene rather than desperately "save the integrity of their game" JUST for when tournaments come

3) point #2 is hard to sustain though as it's probably different teams within their company handling different sections of their game-management. Holinka doesn't really look after disqualifications i believe, and he's potentially the one to blame for the pvp aspect of the game being so lacking; hence why it's just a matter of policies that come from the higher ups of blizzard. they could stop disqualifying people and we could still have a shit game and ashran.

4) the most embarassing and biggest issue is how account sharing is punished far more than wintrading and flyhacking and such, especially cause it could be argued that account sharing is not exactly "cheating". i personally think that buying a boost gives you an advantage with an outside source not related to the game at all, which is your IRL currency. regardless of it being ethically wrong or even good for the game, it can't remotely be compared to flyhacking/kickbotting. I don't understand why the video Jaime posted is incriminating enough for Blizo to be disqualified, where as lord grappling posts videos of himself flying and cheating the hell out of the game, getting away with it (as far as i know - i hope to be wrong). i'm simply convinced that "stealing the spot of a duelist running for gladiator" is not really as bad as winning against anyone else just because you can fly through the arena match (theorethically the duelist could queue up and get those extra 5 points to be above cut off - however that's not going to be possible if he can't win the game because his opponents are unhittable and can fly below the ground when needed).

Edited by Odrareg, 18 August 2016 - 01:41 AM.

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#3 Glink

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 01:52 AM

i guess there's a few things to point out:

1) seeing yourself disqualified while others ""cheat"" as much as you and still get their title is just unacceptable. not sure why the rules have to be different for each player

2) i agree that blizzard could focus on having a nicer pvp scene rather than desperately "save the integrity of their game" JUST for when tournaments come

3) point #2 is hard to sustain though as it's probably different teams within their company handling different sections of their game-management. Holinka doesn't really look after disqualifications i believe, and he's potentially the one to blame for the pvp aspect of the game being so lacking; hence why it's just a matter of policies that come from the higher ups of blizzard. they could stop disqualifying people and we could still have a shit game and ashran.

4) the most embarassing and biggest issue is how account sharing is punished far more than wintrading and flyhacking and such, especially cause it could be argued that account sharing is not exactly "cheating". i personally think that buying a boost gives you an advantage with an outside source not related to the game at all, which is your IRL currency. regardless of it being ethically wrong or even good for the game, it can't remotely be compared to flyhacking/kickbotting. I don't understand why the video Jaime posted is incriminating enough for Blizo to be disqualified, where as lord grappling posts videos of himself flying and cheating the hell out of the game, getting away with it (as far as i know - i hope to be wrong). i'm simply convinced that "stealing the spot of a duelist running for gladiator" is not really as bad as winning against anyone else just because you can fly through the arena match (theorethically the duelist could queue up and get those extra 5 points to be above cut off - however that's not going to be possible if he can't win the game because his opponents are unhittable and can fly below the ground when needed).

Great points you bring up.

Yeah I understand different people handle different parts of the game, but at the end of the day that's still "on blizzard" in the sense that their actions are always going to represent the company as a whole and should be as consistent and fair as possible.

Also a great point about how piloting is taken more serious. Truth be told, I bet the only reason Blizzard takes piloting more serious is because its the only form of cheating that hurts their bottom line directly if you think about it. If people are sharing accounts that means Blizzard makes less money since less people are needing to pay subs. It always leads right back to the money =]

Btw, I didn't know there was a video of Jaime playing with Blizo's pilot, or else I would have added that into consideration.
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#4 jaimee

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 01:54 AM

good video, but just wanna make it clear that i was probably only singled out because I played literally 100s of games with his boosts, as long as you aren't a serial offender they won't punish you. Same thing almost happened to praii last year at blizzcon but they got away with it.
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#5 Bluckstack

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 01:55 AM

Point 4) from Odra is quite strong, acc sharing is getting punished far more than downloading hacks for the game which is ridicolous, many european players have used hacks during online qualifications the past 2 years and on ladder too, this should be something that should carry a life time ban from lan events but still its something they dont touch AT ALL, then you see russians using every hack in the game, flyhacking etc or people on pve sellings pilots non stop too but thats something they dont wanna touch.

On the other hand, there wont be any "proffesional scene" without a monetary reward, which is why many people from the scene are forced to boost in order to keep the dream alive, if they cannot provide a reasonable monetary prize they should either close any tournament and call the game a non e-sport or just focus on the game rather than focusing on punishing the people playing it. Furthermore the people they are punishing are those who do more for the game itself maintaing a competitive scene which should be great for developers in order to fix/improve their game with less work and less time, but thats not even close to the reality, the proffesional wow player for blizzard matters nearly nothing and thats been like that for a long time, its just that every year it gets worse.

Facing it, most of the people who takes this game serious on a proffesional/semi proffesional level knows that they wouldnt get this level on a different game in a short period of time, otherwise many of them would have quitted wow a long time ago since the respect/support for the proffesional gamer outside here is much much better. Im often very critical with this stuff and I dont wanna be misunderstood: this is regarding the direction they choose on the game, their events are good and people who goes to regional/blizzcon usually have pretty much everything they need, its outside those events where the 'pros' care so little and have no impact on nothing related to the future wow path.

Edited by Bluckstack, 18 August 2016 - 02:05 AM.

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#6 jaimee

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:00 AM

also those videos were only uploaded after I was dqd, so they were tracking me some other way :)
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#7 Hollowinside

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 05:50 AM

4) the most embarassing and biggest issue is how account sharing is punished far more than wintrading and flyhacking and such


Nailed it. That's exactly what's happening atm, and it's making me angry how people who used obvious cheats and hacks got away while people who performed acc sharing are somehow banned always first as if they are on a prio list or something. While they are DQing players like Jaime/Blizo/anyone else and banning others like Reckful, players like Grappling and Satana who are >THE< most obvious cheaters this game will probably ever see are still getting their rank 1/Glad titles completely undisturbed while running triple flyhack. This is just absurd.

EDIT: What's even more funny is that before every tournament starts, you see blue posts on MMO going on endlessly about how they want their PvP scene to be as clean as possible and fair to players!

''Hey Jaime, but you played with boosts! INSTA-DQ!" XD AYY LMAOO!

Edited by Hollowinside, 18 August 2016 - 05:54 AM.

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#8 Rexyyoxxx

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 08:42 AM

Did I really just read that someone put its fair because people can use their real life currency to buy things in game? Ok basically you're telling me that my 300 and whatever days played spent at work maybe earning £15 an hour or something medicore, i'd earn around £130k - I can buy an account to start with, a lvl 100 boost, an arena boost for conquest to get gear, then buy r1 boost on every class and race, for atleast 50 years or something? that doesnt really seem logical to me
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#9 Razghul

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 09:50 AM

I actually haven't played this game in a long time, but I do sometimes keep track of what's going on and stumbled across your video Glinkz, was interesting to watch and you made some solid points.

Here's what I think; going to Blizzcon makes you an ambassador of the game, wether you like it or not - you're not only representing yourself or your team, but the game aswell. Some would argue Blizzard shouldn't care less/more during such an event about banning 'cheaters' - but it's insanely hard to track down each and every single person on a active arena ladder that's consistenly changing and so are people's characters' names. Take Jamie for example, he changed his shamans name. There's tons of players transferring to different realms changing theire names or even changing the class they play on (like you said yourself Glinkz, sometimes you had no clue if it was theire character, or an alt or whatever). It would be too demanding to track down proof for every player on the top tier of the arena ladder so you could ban them. Instead they're looking at theire 'ambassadors' - the blizzcon invitees - and look at what wrong they did so they don't set a bad example.

One player is more disgusted with wintrading (like myself) while others are more disgusted with account sharing.
But when it comes down to what should be punished harder/more, to be completely honest, it doesn't matter. It should all be punished equally or it should not be punished at all - there's no grey area in between, I believe it's as black and white as that.
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#10 Xonika

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 10:27 AM

should ban people before the qualifiers instead of wasting time waiting and randomly banning them 1 by 1, so you dont get a plane to regionals and end up getting dqd
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#11 Odrareg

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 11:12 AM

shouldn't really turn this thread into a "is boosting good for the game" discussion because it will only spark up useless arguments, there's different points of view on the matter which can all be considered relatively valid.

however please remember that you can abuse real life money to have an advantage without breaking their tos. you can pay a top guild on your server to get carried on archimonde; you can pay r1 players to play with them in 3v3 without necessarily having them log your account. this is all considered completely "legit" because you're not account sharing and theorethically..you are still "cheating" because someone needs to go through the process of applying to a guild and spend a month or two progressing through hellfire citadel, where you just spend some bucks on purchasing a raid invite on that boss kill. the same goes for the pvp example i made.

the reality is that anyone is free to use his money however he wants, and if people keep playing the game in order to earn something, this definitely keeps the game more active, even if it gets to the point where they have to log other people's accounts.

if you are flyhacking instead, both the duelist losing his gladiator by 1 point because a boost stole his spot (I do acknowledge this is a problem - but then if I have 20 paladins from my own account in the ladder, that's fine?), and the r1 player doing 50 boosts, will be equally disgusted. funnily enough the flyhacker will have nothing happening to him though.

i know i have repeated myself but please consider that hacking ruins people's fun WAY MORE than having a r1 player for 3 hours on his grind from 1500 to 2800+. (HonorBuddy was sanctioned for a reason).
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#12 Nicholaes92

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Posted 18 August 2016 - 02:14 PM

I actually haven't played this game in a long time, but I do sometimes keep track of what's going on and stumbled across your video Glinkz, was interesting to watch and you made some solid points.

Here's what I think; going to Blizzcon makes you an ambassador of the game, wether you like it or not - you're not only representing yourself or your team, but the game aswell. Some would argue Blizzard shouldn't care less/more during such an event about banning 'cheaters' - but it's insanely hard to track down each and every single person on a active arena ladder that's consistenly changing and so are people's characters' names. Take Jamie for example, he changed his shamans name. There's tons of players transferring to different realms changing theire names or even changing the class they play on (like you said yourself Glinkz, sometimes you had no clue if it was theire character, or an alt or whatever). It would be too demanding to track down proof for every player on the top tier of the arena ladder so you could ban them. Instead they're looking at theire 'ambassadors' - the blizzcon invitees - and look at what wrong they did so they don't set a bad example.

One player is more disgusted with wintrading (like myself) while others are more disgusted with account sharing.
But when it comes down to what should be punished harder/more, to be completely honest, it doesn't matter. It should all be punished equally or it should not be punished at all - there's no grey area in between, I believe it's as black and white as that.


I agree with everything said here. I also agree that it is dumb that blizzard doesn't do enough banning when it comes to win traders/fly hackers, that does need to stop. I am not a programmer but their needs to be some sort of system that other games have created in order to catch these players easier. I know for csgo and league for example you can report a player after a specific game where you thought they were cheating/being toxic (even though the second doesn't really apply to wow) and the game can be reviewed by overwatch/what ever league uses and it makes it a lot easier to catch the hacker. I know this system wouldn't work too easy for win traders but I'm sure if they took these steps toward catching hackers they can figure out a way to catch win traders.

Now just because blizzard is bad at banning real hackers and win traders, that doesn't make the banning of account sharing any less justified. You know it's wrong, don't do it.

should ban people before the qualifiers instead of wasting time waiting and randomly banning them 1 by 1, so you dont get a plane to regionals and end up getting dqd


I also agree with this, they do need to crack down on who they are banning and why a lot sooner than what they have in the past. Even though I still believe if you get banned/dqed for any valid reason you shouldn't be surprised, they should still at least tell you sooner rather than later.

shouldn't really turn this thread into a "is boosting good for the game" discussion because it will only spark up useless arguments, there's different points of view on the matter which can all be considered relatively valid.

however please remember that you can abuse real life money to have an advantage without breaking their tos. you can pay a top guild on your server to get carried on archimonde; you can pay r1 players to play with them in 3v3 without necessarily having them log your account. this is all considered completely "legit" because you're not account sharing and theorethically..you are still "cheating" because someone needs to go through the process of applying to a guild and spend a month or two progressing through hellfire citadel, where you just spend some bucks on purchasing a raid invite on that boss kill. the same goes for the pvp example i made.

the reality is that anyone is free to use his money however he wants, and if people keep playing the game in order to earn something, this definitely keeps the game more active, even if it gets to the point where they have to log other people's accounts.

if you are flyhacking instead, both the duelist losing his gladiator by 1 point because a boost stole his spot (I do acknowledge this is a problem - but then if I have 20 paladins from my own account in the ladder, that's fine?), and the r1 player doing 50 boosts, will be equally disgusted. funnily enough the flyhacker will have nothing happening to him though.

i know i have repeated myself but please consider that hacking ruins people's fun WAY MORE than having a r1 player for 3 hours on his grind from 1500 to 2800+. (HonorBuddy was sanctioned for a reason).


In terms of the pvp/pve argument, that's a lot different in my opinion. If you are being carried in pve and get the loot or achievements, that isn't effecting anyone else negatively. I do still think it's obviously bad for the game, but I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as the pvp version of it. If you get carried in a raid you get your loot or whatever and that's it. If you have rank one glads play on your account, then you are not only taking rating from everyone from whatever mmr you start at all the way up to glad range players/r1 range players but also taking up a spot on the ladder for someone who actually worked for it. Now if you pay for a self carry (which is still bad) at the very least that person has to work for it. If you are carrying a Mage and you decide to play rmd to carry yourself up there, the glad players playing against you will have an edge if you have a terrible player you have to carry. Which would take a lot longer and why self carries are not as prevalent.
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