Jump to content

Photo

Baffled by Boomie stat priority

Moonkin Balance Druid Stats Priority HELP I DUNNO

  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 ihatevideogames

ihatevideogames
  • Members
  • Posts: 5

Posted 16 April 2016 - 10:16 PM

So i recently got capped on my Balance Druid, but i am completely baffled as of what items i need and what priority i should utilize for my stats.
I check all of the top Boomies and they all have different stats, one is stacking haste enchants, one is full versatility enchants and gear, one is using mastery on everything, one is doing half of haste half of mastery enchants. Not to mention the confussion with the Rings / Neck.

What i am asking is for someone to simply explain to me, what ring/(s) and necklace are the best? - PvP / Crafted / Legendary ?. . . And if Crafted - what stats? Haste/Mastery or Versa/Mastery, and mainly i want to understand what enchants am i suppossed to use?

I just don't get if it's a matter of opinion, and/or if it relies on the comp, i would be eternally grateful if someone could explain!
  • 0

#2 Freshqtz

Freshqtz

Posted 16 April 2016 - 11:44 PM

Most moonkins stack mastery since it makes your already really strong damage even stronger. Stacking haste is also nice if you like hardcasting a lot and the faster casts and slightly quicker gcds feel really nice (your damage will still be op, trust me). I wouldn't bother stacking versa unless you have access to a highly upgraded legendary ring and some nice pve pieces, otherwise it's hard to stack a really meaningful amount of versa with just pvp pieces.

So yeah, stacking mastery is the safest choice but you can play around and try full haste or a mix of mastery and haste and see if that works for you. Either way make sure that you maintain the 4 set bonus and try to keep as much versa on the side since it's an all around nice stat. But at the end of the day, keep in mind that your choice of gearing isn't going to miraculously boost your rating by +500 in one night.
  • 2

#3 ihatevideogames

ihatevideogames
  • Members
  • Posts: 5

Posted 17 April 2016 - 06:47 AM

Most moonkins stack mastery since it makes your already really strong damage even stronger. Stacking haste is also nice if you like hardcasting a lot and the faster casts and slightly quicker gcds feel really nice (your damage will still be op, trust me). I wouldn't bother stacking versa unless you have access to a highly upgraded legendary ring and some nice pve pieces, otherwise it's hard to stack a really meaningful amount of versa with just pvp pieces.

So yeah, stacking mastery is the safest choice but you can play around and try full haste or a mix of mastery and haste and see if that works for you. Either way make sure that you maintain the 4 set bonus and try to keep as much versa on the side since it's an all around nice stat. But at the end of the day, keep in mind that your choice of gearing isn't going to miraculously boost your rating by +500 in one night.


Alright, awesome, i'l try out mixing haste firstly off, but what would generally be the best in the department of Rings / Neck? I have access to a 770 Legendary ring, 725 Crafted rings x 2, 725 Crafted Neck and most of the pvp Rings / Necks, but even with your info i'm a bit too dull to get a good understanding of which would be the best to use.
  • 0

#4 Alidia

Alidia
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-Grim Batol
  • Misery
  • Posts: 83
  • Talents: Balance 1/2/2/1/2/2/2
  • 2v2: 863
  • 3v3: 1989
  • RBG: 384

Posted 17 April 2016 - 06:51 AM

Statistically haste is actually never even close to better for hardcasting, mastery outweighs it massively without any doubt. But the haste gives faster clones, touches and its a good second gear stat if you get crafted pieces as opposed to versa which won't reach any impactful level.
  • 2

#5 fearco

fearco
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-The Maelstrom
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 123
  • Talents: Restoration 1/2/0/0/2/2/1
  • 2v2: 1837
  • 3v3: 1730
  • RBG: 1733
  • LocationHungary

Posted 18 April 2016 - 10:43 AM

Go full mastery and rest for versa.

You won't be casting a lot, and when you cast - they either interrupt you or wont, it WILL NOT depend on your haste.

And once you cast a spell you want it to hit hard because godknows when you will be able to cast one more.

Not to mention that you get a lot of instant procs so the value of casting time is overrated(esp. with 4s bonus/euphoria).
Also, mastery is like 40 rating for 1% dmg, haste is a bit over 100 for 1% i think.
Its all about how hard you can hit i think. 180k starsurge followed by 180k instant starfire + multistrikes can actually gib a player,whereas -0.13 sec cast time... well its nice, but i think its not changing the outcome.
  • 0

#6 Alidia

Alidia
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-Grim Batol
  • Misery
  • Posts: 83
  • Talents: Balance 1/2/2/1/2/2/2
  • 2v2: 863
  • 3v3: 1989
  • RBG: 384

Posted 18 April 2016 - 12:04 PM

Go full mastery and rest for versa.

You won't be casting a lot, and when you cast - they either interrupt you or wont, it WILL NOT depend on your haste.

And once you cast a spell you want it to hit hard because godknows when you will be able to cast one more.

Not to mention that you get a lot of instant procs so the value of casting time is overrated(esp. with 4s bonus/euphoria).
Also, mastery is like 40 rating for 1% dmg, haste is a bit over 100 for 1% i think.
Its all about how hard you can hit i think. 180k starsurge followed by 180k instant starfire + multistrikes can actually gib a player,whereas -0.13 sec cast time... well its nice, but i think its not changing the outcome.


That is not how it works. You get more haste to tie clones after demo roars, stuns etc better. Haste also serves better to catch a healer quickly if you cast it at a corner, if you are experienced it will also serve you well to get your clone of more quickly after a lockout.

Haste as a second stat also serves well for comps like rogue/boomkin or dk/boomkin where damage is by far your top priority, getting a certain amount of haste can mean the difference between 1 or 2 starfires into the cheap shot, or the few extra dot ticks that sent the enemy team on their back foot. Versa has less impactful damage bonuses, I understand the incentive to get it if you run any other comps though.
  • 0

#7 fearco

fearco
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-The Maelstrom
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 123
  • Talents: Restoration 1/2/0/0/2/2/1
  • 2v2: 1837
  • 3v3: 1730
  • RBG: 1733
  • LocationHungary

Posted 19 April 2016 - 07:22 AM

You can't get a decent amount of haste if you stack mastery and you lose a LOT of damage with it.Most often you will not spamcast starfires anyway.

Mastery is our main stat.
Mastery scales linearly whereas haste does not.

Since you get a lot of cast time reduction from 4p/euphoria, haste starts with a quite diminished effect.
You can get 5% cast time on utlity cast times(root/cyclone/heal/shapeshift etc) and even less on damaging abilities, for 15% dmg or so, i'm not sure about the exact numbers, but 100 haste is 1% and 36 mastery is 1%.
Not a good tradeoff imo, but yes, personal preference.
  • 0

#8 Alidia

Alidia
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-Grim Batol
  • Misery
  • Posts: 83
  • Talents: Balance 1/2/2/1/2/2/2
  • 2v2: 863
  • 3v3: 1989
  • RBG: 384

Posted 19 April 2016 - 10:01 AM

You can't get a decent amount of haste if you stack mastery and you lose a LOT of damage with it.Most often you will not spamcast starfires anyway.

Mastery is our main stat.
Mastery scales linearly whereas haste does not.

Since you get a lot of cast time reduction from 4p/euphoria, haste starts with a quite diminished effect.
You can get 5% cast time on utlity cast times(root/cyclone/heal/shapeshift etc) and even less on damaging abilities, for 15% dmg or so, i'm not sure about the exact numbers, but 100 haste is 1% and 36 mastery is 1%.
Not a good tradeoff imo, but yes, personal preference.


You didn't read what wrote I can see. Euphoria does not change the cast time of Cyclone, neither does 4 pc. The point of what i wrote is to use haste as a secondary stat, not replace mastery. I did not either give any examples of spamcasting starfires, I was talking about my own experience on rogue+boomkin where max opener damage (starsurge, starfire,starfire) is barely even possible despite 4pc or euphoria because of globals. When I played haste I felt the following changes: Smoother to clone, could safely clone off of demo roar, could get some damage inbetween cloning off of cheap shot. You can save safely around 0.3 seconds off of a clone which is indeed quite a big deal in alot of cases.
  • 1

#9 fearco

fearco
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-The Maelstrom
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 123
  • Talents: Restoration 1/2/0/0/2/2/1
  • 2v2: 1837
  • 3v3: 1730
  • RBG: 1733
  • LocationHungary

Posted 19 April 2016 - 11:27 AM

I read what you wrote.
You didn't read mine.
Haste% difference between mastery+versatility and mastery+haste builds is neiglible.
Whereas that few percent damage and damage reduction might help, again, its still a personal preference.
Your haste almost only lowers the cast time of utility spells, and even that is barely noticeable between a versatility and a haste build!

Versatility and haste works the opposite way in the terms of scaling.
The more haste(lower cast times) you have, the less the additional haste worth.
The more versatility(less dmg taken/higher damage/heal) you have, the MORE the additional versatility worth, just like how resilience worked back in the time.

You didn't read what wrote I can see. Euphoria does not change the cast time of Cyclone, neither does 4 pc. The point of what i wrote is to use haste as a secondary stat, not replace mastery. I did not either give any examples of spamcasting starfires, I was talking about my own experience on rogue+boomkin where max opener damage (starsurge, starfire,starfire) is barely even possible despite 4pc or euphoria because of globals. When I played haste I felt the following changes: Smoother to clone, could safely clone off of demo roar, could get some damage inbetween cloning off of cheap shot. You can save safely around 0.3 seconds off of a clone which is indeed quite a big deal in alot of cases.


  • 0

#10 Freshqtz

Freshqtz

Posted 20 April 2016 - 01:27 AM

Your haste almost only lowers the cast time of utility spells, and even that is barely noticeable between a versatility and a haste build!


But just as Alidia mentioned, you definitely feel a difference with your cast times and extra globals (especially when your weapon haste enchant procs) once you try a haste build, it just takes a while to really feel it. Now I'm not saying that stacking haste is always the way to go but it can be really good in certain setups, especially with a rogue or mage. Speaking of mages, all the top ones stack full haste even though, just like with moonkins, going mastery or versa would clearly provide more damage in the long run. I think people really underestimate the value of stats like haste in pvp just because it doesn't directly impact your damage so people think "oh, shit stat." Obviously there's a reason why the best mages all go full haste, and that's because it's a cc-oriented class and haste just feels so nice for that playstyle. It's the same for a moonkin when playing something like moonkin/rogue because you need to adopt a cc-oriented playstyle if you want to play that comp at a really high level.

Do I believe that mastery/versa is the way to go for comps like lsd2 or rbgs where I would spam dots and instants all day? Absolutely. But are those stats nearly as important in setups such as moonkin/rogue or moonkin/mage where you tend to spend a lot of time turtling, spamming clones, and deal damage in small time windows? They still are important, but not quite as much in the long run.
  • 0

#11 fearco

fearco
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-The Maelstrom
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 123
  • Talents: Restoration 1/2/0/0/2/2/1
  • 2v2: 1837
  • 3v3: 1730
  • RBG: 1733
  • LocationHungary

Posted 20 April 2016 - 09:56 AM

But just as Alidia mentioned, you definitely feel a difference with your cast times and extra globals (especially when your weapon haste enchant procs) once you try a haste build, it just takes a while to really feel it. Now I'm not saying that stacking haste is always the way to go but it can be really good in certain setups, especially with a rogue or mage. Speaking of mages, all the top ones stack full haste even though, just like with moonkins, going mastery or versa would clearly provide more damage in the long run. I think people really underestimate the value of stats like haste in pvp just because it doesn't directly impact your damage so people think "oh, shit stat." Obviously there's a reason why the best mages all go full haste, and that's because it's a cc-oriented class and haste just feels so nice for that playstyle. It's the same for a moonkin when playing something like moonkin/rogue because you need to adopt a cc-oriented playstyle if you want to play that comp at a really high level.

Do I believe that mastery/versa is the way to go for comps like lsd2 or rbgs where I would spam dots and instants all day? Absolutely. But are those stats nearly as important in setups such as moonkin/rogue or moonkin/mage where you tend to spend a lot of time turtling, spamming clones, and deal damage in small time windows? They still are important, but not quite as much in the long run.

You need to cast like 30 clones to free up one gcd by the haste% difference...(just a random number there)

Im playing DWTS and got to 2.6k this season, before falling back to the 2.1k :)
I know it isnt THE rating, but still. haste scaling is VERY bad for us.
Am i casting slower ? Yes.
Am i hitting harder ? Oh yeah.
Does my cc gets interrupted/reflected/grounded because i have low haste? Hell no.

And yo, dont compare mage mastery to boomie mastery, like, REALLY....... Just ...don't, its not the same.
  • 0

#12 ihatevideogames

ihatevideogames
  • Members
  • Posts: 5

Posted 20 April 2016 - 10:23 AM

Wowsers, i didn't expect even this many replies, and after reading this, i find the ideas conflicting, but a bit more clarified. Nonetheless, i think i'we been re-assured to go for a Mastery / Haste build, cause i think i need the haste, being a Tauren, and the fact that i play DwtS and my rogue isn't the uhm... most controlling type of fella.

But quick question, should i use Mastery / Haste crafted rings, + Crafted Neck or is the Mastery / Multi PvP necklace better?
  • 0

#13 fearco

fearco
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-The Maelstrom
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 123
  • Talents: Restoration 1/2/0/0/2/2/1
  • 2v2: 1837
  • 3v3: 1730
  • RBG: 1733
  • LocationHungary

Posted 20 April 2016 - 12:42 PM

Wowsers, i didn't expect even this many replies, and after reading this, i find the ideas conflicting, but a bit more clarified. Nonetheless, i think i'we been re-assured to go for a Mastery / Haste build, cause i think i need the haste, being a Tauren, and the fact that i play DwtS and my rogue isn't the uhm... most controlling type of fella.

But quick question, should i use Mastery / Haste crafted rings, + Crafted Neck or is the Mastery / Multi PvP necklace better?

Only craft rings, and only if you use mastery/versatility build. Then you replace two bad stat to two good stat. If you gear for haste... you replace 1 stat to an another and lose itemlevels, feels pointless(not to mention the gold)

Neck is PVP mastery+haste, which is perfect for any build.
  • 0

#14 Alidia

Alidia
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-Grim Batol
  • Misery
  • Posts: 83
  • Talents: Balance 1/2/2/1/2/2/2
  • 2v2: 863
  • 3v3: 1989
  • RBG: 384

Posted 20 April 2016 - 01:56 PM

You need to cast like 30 clones to free up one gcd by the haste% difference...(just a random number there)

Im playing DWTS and got to 2.6k this season, before falling back to the 2.1k :)
I know it isnt THE rating, but still. haste scaling is VERY bad for us.
Am i casting slower ? Yes.
Am i hitting harder ? Oh yeah.
Does my cc gets interrupted/reflected/grounded because i have low haste? Hell no.

And yo, dont compare mage mastery to boomie mastery, like, REALLY....... Just ...don't, its not the same.


I need an explanation though as to why versatility would be good still, it scaling more effectively is irrelevant if the stat subsides to haste.
You should not be getting kicked, I don't understand how you get kicked either, do you not fake? Assuming you do get kicked as the only argument against haste seems to be outside of it scaling poorly, if you get versa does a kick not actually block you from casting cyclone? Or did my argument get past you.

I'll compile again at normal pace, in hope you'll understand. 0.3 seconds cut out of the cyclone casting time is huge in alot of comps where demo roar clones can seal the deal, I am talking about rogue / boomkin, mage / boomkin. The counter argument to that to seal the deal about stat priority is not "But haste has lower stat progression in % per point" or "You can get kicked."
  • 0

#15 ihatevideogames

ihatevideogames
  • Members
  • Posts: 5

Posted 20 April 2016 - 03:51 PM

Only craft rings, and only if you use mastery/versatility build. Then you replace two bad stat to two good stat. If you gear for haste... you replace 1 stat to an another and lose itemlevels, feels pointless(not to mention the gold)

Neck is PVP mastery+haste, which is perfect for any build.


But there isn't a Mastery/Haste int PvP neck?
  • 0

#16 fearco

fearco
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-The Maelstrom
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 123
  • Talents: Restoration 1/2/0/0/2/2/1
  • 2v2: 1837
  • 3v3: 1730
  • RBG: 1733
  • LocationHungary

Posted 21 April 2016 - 07:16 AM

I need an explanation though as to why versatility would be good still, it scaling more effectively is irrelevant if the stat subsides to haste.
You should not be getting kicked, I don't understand how you get kicked either, do you not fake? Assuming you do get kicked as the only argument against haste seems to be outside of it scaling poorly, if you get versa does a kick not actually block you from casting cyclone? Or did my argument get past you.

I'll compile again at normal pace, in hope you'll understand. 0.3 seconds cut out of the cyclone casting time is huge in alot of comps where demo roar clones can seal the deal, I am talking about rogue / boomkin, mage / boomkin. The counter argument to that to seal the deal about stat priority is not "But haste has lower stat progression in % per point" or "You can get kicked."

Dude, i don't get kicked all the time, nobody said that, you misunderstood me.
And when i do - i would get kicked with 0.3s faster cast time too, believe me, a good kicker won't be fooled by 0.3sec shorter cast time, lol. They kick at 90% on decent ratings, you should know tht, so 20% haste here or there helps NOTHING in that sense.

And you lose a lot of damage, a LOT. You MUST sacrifice mastery to get that kind of haste.

And because our mastery scales so amazingly, you lose ~2.5% damage for every 0.017sec reduction when you sacrifice mastery for it.
And now think again.. would you lose 10% damage for 0.068 sec reduction on your clone cast time ? REALLY ?

Even if you sacrifice ONLY versatility(which means you won't reach -0.3 sec on cyclones), you lose 10% damage AND ~-8% dmg taken(Due the scaling of versatility.......) for 0.17 sec cast time on your clones.
Again, while haste scales this poorly for us due almost only affecting utility spells - versatility scales exponentially...

So in the end, you end up with:
Sacrificing mastery: you lose ~2.5% damage for 0.017sec cast time reduction
Sacrificing versatility: You lose 1% damage and ~0.6% damage reduction(increasing with the more versatility you have) for 0.017sec cast time reduction.

While i understand that for some players this looks appealing and the entire thing is UP TO PERSONAL PREFERENCE, you simply cannot say that stacking haste is better.

Btw, if you really play DWTS you should never play with roar btw. Neither with frozen chicken, fcks sheep/gouge/sap DRs..... but you obviously know that and just outplay them with your haste.
  • 0

#17 fearco

fearco
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-The Maelstrom
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 123
  • Talents: Restoration 1/2/0/0/2/2/1
  • 2v2: 1837
  • 3v3: 1730
  • RBG: 1733
  • LocationHungary

Posted 21 April 2016 - 07:17 AM

But there isn't a Mastery/Haste int PvP neck?

I'm using haste+mastery pvp neck... had to doublecheck armory if im that stupid but armory shows that too, so im pretty sure it exist.
  • 0

#18 Dafuq

Dafuq
  • Junkies
  • Humanclass_name
  • EU-Outland
  • Misery
  • Posts: 45
  • Talents: Shadow 1/1/1/1/2/1/.
  • 2v2: 1601
  • 3v3: 2482
  • 5v5: 2369
  • RBG: 1649

Posted 21 April 2016 - 10:26 AM

I'm using haste+mastery pvp neck... had to doublecheck armory if im that stupid but armory shows that too, so im pretty sure it exist.


You must be pretty stupid then, because you're using the agility neck lol
  • 0

#19 fearco

fearco
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-The Maelstrom
  • Rampage / Saccage
  • Posts: 123
  • Talents: Restoration 1/2/0/0/2/2/1
  • 2v2: 1837
  • 3v3: 1730
  • RBG: 1733
  • LocationHungary

Posted 21 April 2016 - 11:36 AM

You must be pretty stupid then, because you're using the agility neck lol

Wooooooooooow really ! What the f.... :D
Thanks ! :D
I checked on armory - then just checked the haste/mastery part... didn't check for the intellect.
Then now that you told me i rechecked and... agility, lol. no comment, must have super mega high been high when bought that.
Guess i gotta re-check everything once i get home...
  • 0

#20 Alidia

Alidia
  • Members
  • Night Elfclass_name
  • EU-Grim Batol
  • Misery
  • Posts: 83
  • Talents: Balance 1/2/2/1/2/2/2
  • 2v2: 863
  • 3v3: 1989
  • RBG: 384

Posted 27 April 2016 - 12:46 AM

Dude, i don't get kicked all the time, nobody said that, you misunderstood me.
And when i do - i would get kicked with 0.3s faster cast time too, believe me, a good kicker won't be fooled by 0.3sec shorter cast time, lol. They kick at 90% on decent ratings, you should know tht, so 20% haste here or there helps NOTHING in that sense.

And you lose a lot of damage, a LOT. You MUST sacrifice mastery to get that kind of haste.

And because our mastery scales so amazingly, you lose ~2.5% damage for every 0.017sec reduction when you sacrifice mastery for it.
And now think again.. would you lose 10% damage for 0.068 sec reduction on your clone cast time ? REALLY ?

Even if you sacrifice ONLY versatility(which means you won't reach -0.3 sec on cyclones), you lose 10% damage AND ~-8% dmg taken(Due the scaling of versatility.......) for 0.17 sec cast time on your clones.
Again, while haste scales this poorly for us due almost only affecting utility spells - versatility scales exponentially...

So in the end, you end up with:
Sacrificing mastery: you lose ~2.5% damage for 0.017sec cast time reduction
Sacrificing versatility: You lose 1% damage and ~0.6% damage reduction(increasing with the more versatility you have) for 0.017sec cast time reduction.

While i understand that for some players this looks appealing and the entire thing is UP TO PERSONAL PREFERENCE, you simply cannot say that stacking haste is better.

Btw, if you really play DWTS you should never play with roar btw. Neither with frozen chicken, fcks sheep/gouge/sap DRs..... but you obviously know that and just outplay them with your haste.


Someone made a point I don't understand, better make a strawman and argue against myself.
  • 0





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Moonkin, Balance, Druid, Stats, Priority, HELP, I DUNNO

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

<