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A Perspective On WoW Arena And Esports


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#1 Glink

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 01:51 AM

Hello there. I've been thinking alot recently about WoW arena, the state it's in now, how it used to be, the future of it, and its relation to the esports scene in general.

I decided to make a video explaining why Blizzard is missing out big time on Arena, how to correct that, and it's relation to esports in general.

I thought it would be appropriate to share it here since this is a forum dedicated to discussing arena. Take a listen if you're interested and leave me some feedback if you have any, both here and on the video.

Here is the link, please note the quality options may take a few minutes to adjust:


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#2 Seu

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 02:31 AM

Hey bud, I've been waiting a long time to say this, but here it is: I am actually a lead developer at Blizzard. I have been reading balance essays on Arena Junkies for a long time, but this right here is the balance post/essay/vlog that has finally convinced me to make sweeping changes to the game and bring arena back to life. I can't believe we didn't think of this earlier, you are a genius. You did it kid, this is the one, WoW is saved.
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#3 Shellytyson

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 03:11 AM

Nice video Glink
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#4 Glink

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 04:06 AM

Hey bud, I've been waiting a long time to say this, but here it is: I am actually a lead developer at Blizzard. I have been reading balance essays on Arena Junkies for a long time, but this right here is the balance post/essay/vlog that has finally convinced me to make sweeping changes to the game and bring arena back to life. I can't believe we didn't think of this earlier, you are a genius. You did it kid, this is the one, WoW is saved.

It wasn't made with the intention of blizzard hearing it or changing anything.
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#5 Mageic

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Posted 12 April 2016 - 08:44 PM

Great video. I don't agree with 100% of your points but this point I'm this one is something I've felt for a while

https://www.youtube....Rg3VAI#t=10m20s

The point about WoW arena = dota wc3 mod is something I've been saying for quite a while. It's a completely untapped game type that has die hard fans in an otherwise PvE focused game. If that same game type was better exposed to the competitive gamers out there it would be vastly more popular.
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#6 Bigmoran

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 01:51 AM

Hey bud, I've been waiting a long time to say this, but here it is: I am actually a lead developer at Blizzard. I have been reading balance essays on Arena Junkies for a long time, but this right here is the balance post/essay/vlog that has finally convinced me to make sweeping changes to the game and bring arena back to life. I can't believe we didn't think of this earlier, you are a genius. You did it kid, this is the one, WoW is saved.


LMAO glink u got pwned man
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#7 Bigmoran

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 01:55 AM

havent watched whole video yet BUT, i really like Hearthstone as sort of a niche esport. its impossible to watch if you arent part of the HS playing crowd, but its insanely fun to spectate tournaments (IMO). HS is blizzards most widely popular game (30+ million players or something).
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#8 Bigmoran

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 02:03 AM

the reason why riot is able to remain the PREMIER esports company is how they treat their players.

each professional player BY DEFAULT receives a base salary from riot. on top of that, riot actually sponsors events.

from my understanding, one of the pitfalls of blizzard and esports is how awful blizzard was/(perhaps still is) at supporting events. blizzard would require organizers to PAY them in order to have tournaments, while a company like riot PAYS organizers to have tournaments AND pays players.
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#9 Freshqtz

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 04:13 AM

Daily reminder that Activi$ion-Blizzard really doesn't care what you think of the state of the game and/or the potential of arenas.
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#10 Mageic

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 06:40 PM

the reason why riot is able to remain the PREMIER esports company is how they treat their players.

each professional player BY DEFAULT receives a base salary from riot. on top of that, riot actually sponsors events.

from my understanding, one of the pitfalls of blizzard and esports is how awful blizzard was/(perhaps still is) at supporting events. blizzard would require organizers to PAY them in order to have tournaments, while a company like riot PAYS organizers to have tournaments AND pays players.


The only reason Riot can do that is because LoL gets the viewership that allows them to do so, WoW does not. WoW barely gets enough viewers to get sponsors interested in funding GCD tournaments.
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#11 Konjunktur

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Posted 13 April 2016 - 07:20 PM

Impressive video!

There were what some 300K active arena players at the end of MoP right? Now imagine if a company that actually cares about their community would come into the scene by creating an arena clone (HoN-esque). With proper focus on balancing and marketing there could be millions playing just arena in such a game. Maybe it wouldn't be the best e-sport (Arena is pretty pretty hard to watch for a newbie unlike MOBAs) but there is clearly big monetary potential in arena just due to raw player numbers. Blizzard needs some competition. Not BLC2, not Forge - just a straight up Arena clone (like HoN was for WC3 dota). We just need a company to take the risk and seize the opportunity.
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#12 Glink

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Posted 14 April 2016 - 10:16 PM

Impressive video!

There were what some 300K active arena players at the end of MoP right? Now imagine if a company that actually cares about their community would come into the scene by creating an arena clone (HoN-esque). With proper focus on balancing and marketing there could be millions playing just arena in such a game. Maybe it wouldn't be the best e-sport (Arena is pretty pretty hard to watch for a newbie unlike MOBAs) but there is clearly big monetary potential in arena just due to raw player numbers. Blizzard needs some competition. Not BLC2, not Forge - just a straight up Arena clone (like HoN was for WC3 dota). We just need a company to take the risk and seize the opportunity.

I would actually argue arena is more watchable than league or any MOBA. Maybe not in its current state, but the 3D enviornmemt and arena maps are much better for spectating than a giant map cluttered with minions and creeps, not to mention 10 champions to keep track of. You guys think its a good spectator sport because its so popular so therefore the concept is now familiar to you, but as a baselibe arena is a better game for that and I mean that shit.
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#13 greeneos

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 02:27 AM

I would actually argue arena is more watchable than league or any MOBA. Maybe not in its current state, but the 3D enviornmemt and arena maps are much better for spectating than a giant map cluttered with minions and creeps, not to mention 10 champions to keep track of. You guys think its a good spectator sport because its so popular so therefore the concept is now familiar to you, but as a baselibe arena is a better game for that and I mean that shit.


u actually think arena is more watchable than a moba, i hate mobas but i'm not bias enough to actually say this. you don't watch an "entire map clutterd with minions" you watch 1 lane at a time and teamfights are MUCH easier to distinguish than in wow. you spend your time in wow arena looking at frames and you do the same while watching arena. be it wrath or now, whenever there was arena such as mlg or tournys, the spectating portion was always terrible. you must be high because we only watched our comps because we were into wow not because it was a super exciting game

moba spell animations are obvious and more exciting than wow. a frostbolt is just as exciting as any other spell and you don't aim anything so there is no excitement of missing, dodging, global aim etc.

Edited by greeneos, 15 April 2016 - 04:26 AM.

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#14 Lirox

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 03:12 AM

glinkz is a god dam moron tbh
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#15 Tekkys

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 05:14 AM

I just don't think WoW arena is a spectator friendly thing for most people. The same people who watched the "big" MLG tournaments that WoW had back in Wrath are the same people, or the same type of people, who watch GCDTV now. They are devout fans who know what is happening often before it happens. People seem to have this illustrious memory of Wrath PvP having hundreds of thousands of viewers; that is not the case. For the time, there was certainly a lot of viewers, though. Especially considering streams and that kinda thing were still VERY new to the internetz.

I really wish WoW would be competitive again, i just don't see it functioning in the current "eSport" market. Investors and spectators want a game that is fundamentally simple, but intrinsically complicated at the same time. League of Legends is a perfect example of a spectator eSport, and it is doing so well for a reason. From a general perspective, you can watch your favorite players make flashy plays, style all over people and just appreciate it. What the general viewer may not see are the little trades that the great players make; how they bully you for CS, force you into unwinnable, small skirmishes and snowball you out of the game from those stacking advantages. The game has seemingly infinite depth in those regards, especially with an evolving meta every year.

I don't think there is a simple answer to help WoW back into the spotlight, because it isn't a simple question. The game is old, it looks old compared to a lot of the new shiny games coming out now. The engine is dated, and the PvP is scripted. I think GCDTV has done a great deal for this community, and i hope they continue to grow. They are realistically our only hope for now.
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#16 Nogahn

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 08:09 AM

I actually think that if blizzard would create an arena-related game with balancing etc. AND IT WOULD BE F2P.

They might not become league or cs but they could defenitly become a new niche esports. (like smite for example)
But it's Blizzard and they wont do shit unless you can actually prove to them that they will make money from it. (a lot of money)
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#17 Xinowl

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 01:30 PM

I actually think that if blizzard would create an arena-related game with balancing etc. AND IT WOULD BE F2P.

They might not become league or cs but they could defenitly become a new niche esports. (like smite for example)
But it's Blizzard and they wont do shit unless you can actually prove to them that they will make money from it. (a lot of money)


This is Activision controlling the company.
In the past Blizzard was making quality games with the release date "Its done when its done"
Now its more like "How much €€€ can we make from lowest amount of effort" (See HEARTHSTONE)

Ironically, this all happened after the company merge.
Faction and race change was some of the first micro transactions to appear in the game. Shortly after the merge :)
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#18

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 02:50 PM

I actually think that if blizzard would create an arena-related game with balancing etc. AND IT WOULD BE F2P.

They might not become league or cs but they could defenitly become a new niche esports. (like smite for example)
But it's Blizzard and they wont do shit unless you can actually prove to them that they will make money from it. (a lot of money)

Yeah just like.. eh what's that game everyone was so hyped up about?? aaah, overwatch... jk it costs money, and jk it looks too be shite. People overhype all their games and when they turn out to be mediocre or worse people realize that it's all just sellout games from a sellout company.
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#19 Pmotion

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Posted 15 April 2016 - 06:19 PM

WoW arena has always been 100x more fun when actually playing compared to viewing. The game doesn't seem like it has any game breaking plays to be made nowadays.. you rotate through cooldowns and basically wait for someone to fuck up rather than make a great play.
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